Talk:Gordie Howe

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1 21 All-Star Teams?
2 Gordie Howe hat-trick
3 Alleged copyvio
4 Name Gordie Howe is copyrighted, see Gordie Howe's Official website
5 He won four Stanley cups
6 Picture of Gordie Howe
7 Citations & References
8 Stats
9 Gordie Howe
10 Nicknames
11 Retired number

[edit] 21 All-Star Teams?

I've heard (& it's a record unlikely to be equalled) Howe played on a record 21 All-Star teams. Trekphiler 08:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

And almost certainly won't be. Most of Howe's career took place in a league with a hundred players in it; that Ray Bourque was named to nineteen season end All-Star Teams in the expansion era is remarkable -- Gretkzy himself fell well short. RGTraynor 17:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gordie Howe hat-trick

Is there a source for the trivia item that he's never actually recorded a Gordie Howe hat-trick? I personally find it hard to believe that in 2186 games, 975 goals, and 1385 assists, he's never had at least one game where he scored a goal and an assist, and also a fighting penalty. --Legalizeit 03:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged copyvio

I just went over that mrandmrshockey.com page, and I can't see a single damn section in this article that's taken from there. Quite aside from that I'm one of the many editors who've worked on it, and wrote my copy myself, thank you! That this comes from an anon IP registered today and with eight actual edits is highly suspect, and given the large copyvio backlog, I want to see some line-by-line proof of copyvios -- and any such section changed rather than the whole article held hostage -- before such an important article gets put on the shelf for a few weeks. RGTraynor 07:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Gordie Howe is copyrighted, see Gordie Howe's Official website

Gordie Howe is the only player to get his name copyrighted, please see his official website www.mrandmrshockey.com --69.156.150.37 07:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is the exact page on his website The name itself Gordie Howe is copyrighted. He is the only player to get his name copyrighted. --69.156.150.37 07:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the law states that things in the public domain, such as sports figures, can't really copywrite such stuff -- you couldn't, for instance, prevent a newspaper from writing a story about someone in the public domain. Someone with actual knowledge of the law will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding. ~~ Meeples 07:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I was under that assumption myself. Perhaps someone should take this to WP:AN. KOS | talk 07:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

In Gordie Howe's case he can, He's the only player ever to do that. --69.156.150.37 07:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

You'll need some proof to back that up. I think he can copywrite his name so that others cannot use it without his permission in some instances. But, by your argument, you're breaking the law by even writing his name on this talk page, now aren't you? ~~ Meeples 07:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

You are correct, I will call him GH for now on!--69.156.150.37 08:02, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Good plan. Until we get a copywrite lawyer in here, let's not worry about this article being a violation. ~~ Meeples 08:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Besides the {{copyvio}} template is for text that appears to infringe on the copyright of said website, the text in the article itself is not a copyright infringement, but is released under the GFDL. So even if his name is copyrighted that template is not correct. KOS | talk 08:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

This might clear this up, the anon appears to be mistaken. From: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html Can I copyright the name of my band? No. Names are not protected by copyright law. Some names may be protected under trademark law. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. KOS | talk 08:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC

Quite aside from that it's the moniker "Mr. Hockey" that was trademarked (not "copyrighted," a term used by the editor in complete ignorance of the law), not Howe's name itself. That being said, Howe was called "Mr. Hockey" decades before, its use in this article is valid, and what the hell ... "Detroit Red Wings" is no less trademarked, and it's used in half a thousand articles. RGTraynor 01:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The user that tagged this article is a sockpuppet of an indefinitely banned user, VaughanWatch AKA JohnnyCanuck. There is no need to worry about the copyright tagging. -- JamesTeterenko 03:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] He won four Stanley cups

I think this should be mentioned.

[edit] Picture of Gordie Howe

I put up a photo request tag as we need a picture of Gordie Howe. Mr. C.C. 07:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Good luck. More than most players, Howe's pretty fierce about copyrighted images. RGTraynor 12:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I added an image from Commons. It's not the best option for the infobox. Hopefully someone else can come up with a live picture and this image can be moved down further into the article. Accurizer 23:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stats

It appears that the stats given for Godie Howe are incorrect and incomplete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thright (talk • contribs) 19:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gordie Howe

Gordie Howe is very good at playing hockey —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.201.152.55 (talk) 16:56, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames

I'm believing that some nicknames for Gordie Howe are more common / prominent than others, and that displaying all names in the infobox, misleads the reader to think he was refer to all equally.

I believe the citation for the nickname "Power" is very poor. I've googled other incidents and found it to be very isolated nickname. In the first citation it sounds as if only one person refers to him that way[1]:

"My dad [Bud Polie] was very close with Gordie Howe and he thought Gordie was the greatest player ever. Nobody else was even close. My dad gave him the nickname, ‘Power,’ before he was Mr. Hockey.

Whereas in the following quote, it seems as if it comes from Jack Adams [2]:

Nicknames: "Mr. Hockey," "Jack Adams called me `Power.'"

The following quote lists Mr. Hockey and Mr. Elbows as the two most common.. but then mentions many others besides "Power"[3]:

Howe's list of nicknames is almost as long as his list of accomplishments -- his unbelievable skills and longevity baffling scribes who struggled to find words to describe his phenomenal talents and aggressive style of play. Mr. Hockey. Power. Mr. Everything. Mr. All-Star. The Most. The Great Gordie. The King of Hockey. The Legend. The Man. No. 9. And of course, Mr. Elbows.

I feel we should just limit the nicknames inside the infobox to just two, but mention other names elsewhere in the article. Flibirigit (talk) 04:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree, and just reverted the edit; I want a better reason to include a nickname in the list than that Bud Poile had a private one by which he thought of Howe. RGTraynor 12:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

A limit of two nicknames is arbitrary. "Power" is not a private nickname as evidenced by the two references above. There are many more instances that this nickname was used.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 21:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Limiting to two names is not arbitrary. Those are the only two nicknames that he is widely known by. All the other nicknames can be worked in elsewhere in the article. Flibirigit (talk) 01:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The only nickname he is widely known by is Mr. Hockey. Perhaps this is the only nickname that should be in the infobox. During most of his playing career "Power" was his most frequently used nickname. Eddie Shore was known as Mr. Hockey and Howe waited until Shore died in 1985 to trademark the name. Bobby Hull was also called Mr. Hockey in the late 60's.

Howe was probably referred to as Mr. Elbows as often as he was called Elbows.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 07:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Adding all of those rarely used nicknames in the Trivia section is not a good solution. Wikipedia:Trivia_sections are discouraged and it should not be expanded.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 07:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to rewrite the entire trivia section into prose. Flibirigit (talk) 15:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Is that justification for adding to a problem?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It means I appreciated the fact you wanted to have other nicknames in the article. It also means I don't have time to rewrite the entire trivia section. If you don't like my suggestion of keeping your contribution in a trivia section, then you can delete all the nicknames in the article. Flibirigit (talk) 22:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Errr ... I've got a THN collection going back to the early 1950s, Trail of the Stanley Cup and several other contemporary sources. In none of them does "Power" ever come up as a contemporaneous nickname for Howe, nor does "Mr. Hockey" come up for Hull. (Only TotSC is contemporary to Shore's career, but even so.) RGTraynor 13:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I can find plenty of references where Bobby Hull and Eddie Shore are called Mr. Hockey, but I'm not sure what that will accomplish. My point is that Mr. Hockey wasn't synonymous with Howe until the 70's and I don't think that nickname was used for him with any regularity until the late 60's. In his first two decades in the NHL "Power" was his most frequently used nickname and I think the article should reflect that.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

If you in fact have references for those being nicknames widely acknowledged by the press and the public, feel free to present them. RGTraynor 22:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

There are already three references supporting "Power" in this discussion, but if one more will convince you that it belongs in the infobox, I'll get one. If you mean Hull and Shore being called Mr. Hockey, tell me how that will resolve things and I'll get them for you.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 00:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

No, there are references saying that Bud Poile and one or two other people used the nickname. I'm looking for exactly what I asked: references for those being nicknames widely acknowledged by the press and the public. RGTraynor 01:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

How's this?

The New York Times, September 8, 1971

"The Gordie Howe Dynasty Ends

By GERALD ESKENAZI

Power. That was Gordie Howe's nickname, bestowed on him by players who wore the Detroit Red Wing uniform over the last 25 years."--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 17:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, a name bestowed by teammates... not everyone in general. It should be mentioned in the article as a name given by teammates. Flibirigit (talk) 17:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Used by "everyone in general" is a very high standard. I'm not aware of any Wikipedia guideline on nicknames, but I don't believe this is the usual standard for a hockey player's nicknames.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 21:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Since the requirement that a nickname be used by "everyone in general" is neither verifiable nor the usual standard, The New York Times reference (above) should suffice.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 18:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Retired number

I changed the portion under "Achievements" to say:

"His number, 9, was retired by both the Detroit Red Wings and the Hartford Whalers. Although the Houston Aeros Howe played for no longer exist, the AHL team of the same name has also retired his number."

I then removed the comment about his retired number in the "Trivia" section, as it was rather redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.108.183 (talk) 18:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

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