Wikipedia talk:German-English translation requests

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Contents 1 deutsche Germanistin 2 Translation request from German (old) template 3 Another template 4 164 articles. How to order the mess? 5 References 6 how do you translate Gemeinderat? 7 Answer: translation for Gemeinderat 8 4 from 2004 9 Question 10 how do you translate "k.u.k. Hoflieferant"? 11 Wikipedia:German Wikipedians' notice board 12 Adstringenz 13 Translation request: Deutsches Reich 14 Help with translating a paragraph requested 15 Charles Bettelheim 16 Template for translations 17 Requests for disambiguation articles 18 Once and for all 19 Ehrengrab 20 Of course! 21 Collecting data on the use of umlaut and ß in English language publications 22 IG Farben building help 23 Recently completed section 24 Bürgerhäuser 25 sheynhertz 26 de:Palais Strousberg 27 GV? 28 Move to Wikipedia:Translation 29 Naming convention 30 Überfremdung 31 Translation Request

[edit] deutsche Germanistin

Someone suggest a better translation for deutsche Germanistin than "german germanist". thanks -Lethe | Talk 09:06, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

That depends on the article and the context (after all, the above is the literal translation, and something like "female german language academic" is kind of ludicrous) ; e.g., if it's part of a biography, I would opt for something like "...after having studied germanistics.." From which article is this problem? Lectonar 09:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd say german linguist, but depends on context--Fenice 09:15, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

yes, but per definitionem , germanistics (and romanistics etc.) is more than just linguistics Lectonar 09:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

"Germanist" should stay if that was her specific field of study. I changed the word "German" to "Germany" and appended it after Hamburg. This makes it clear that she was a German Germanist without using bad style. (Patrick 00:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC))

the article in question is Käte Hamburger -Lethe | Talk 09:45, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

I would leave out "German" completely, because it is quite obvious she was German: she was born there, lived there ("immigrated" to Sweden) and died there - the context makes it clear she's German. If you want to stress that she was a German citizen, it could be added in another sentence, like: "Being a German citizen, Hamburger established her international status ...etc."--Fenice 09:54, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

That's it :) , although in this case, I for one see nothing wrong with the german germanist, apart from the alliteration Lectonar 09:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I had a similar problem at Büdingen: the original German said something about a Gymnasium mit Turnhalle and I just couldn't quite bring myself to translate that Gymnasium with gymnasium. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 21:49, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Translation request from German (old) template

As the German to English translation requests are now on a separate page, I've added a template that points back to this page: -

rather than the general template: -

on the basis that someone following the link in the general template will be brought to a page where the German to English requests are no longer listed. Valiantis 18:12, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Another template

I made a template based on {{1911}} that we can slap on translated articles: Template:German. It still needs some tweeking, but I'm not well endowed in the coding dept. --Tydaj 16:56, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Me neither and Help:Template is not written in English or German :).

However, I've made a few amendments to the template as set out below. Obviously revert or change them as you see fit!

You've used :de:{{NAMESPACE}} as the parameter. This will point just to :de: (or to :de:Template: :de:Wikipedia: etc.). If you use :de:{{PAGENAME}} it will point to the correct page as long as the German page has the same title as the English page. This is fine for most articles on people, but won't work for most other articles. I don't know how to get past this point myself.

To set a date (that won't change) you need to specify a parameter (in the form {{{1}}} in the template itself and then add a 'pipe' to the template tag on the page where you use it thus: - {{German|[[September 8]] [[2005]]}} or {{German|September 8 2005}}. (I think the former is preferable as it means that individual users see the date as either September 8 or 8 September dependent on how they have their preferences set). I don't think there is a more elegant way of doing this as this is the method used for Template:Cleanup-date.

Good idea for a template though.

Thinking about it further (and noting I forgot to sign my last comment!) you could add the name of the German article as a parameter too thus:-

''This article incorporates text translated from [[:de:{{1}}|the corresponding German Wikipedia article]] as of {{{2}}}''.

You'd then have to form the template tag thus - {{German|Woraufmandeutenwill| [[September 8]] [[2005]]}}. Of course, by the time you've written that you could have just typed the text out 'long hand', so I hope there's another solution... Valiantis 21:29, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Maybe if there was some way to "tap into" the articles interwiki? --Tydaj 00:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 164 articles. How to order the mess?

Is it just me or are there too many articles listed on this page? I would love to contribute, but I am just confused at the mass of articles.

I really don't mind having a long backlist, but 164 articles? (Yes, I used a calculator). I don't know how many people are working on this project, but I really don't think there is 164 people here who do translations. Have a look at Wikipedia:Spanish Translation of the Week. There is 90 people, but they only translate one article per week. This seems to be more realistic. Here is my suggestion: Limit the articles that are currently worked on to one per category. There is no need to have 79 biographies here at once. Move all other articles to a candidate subpage, like Wikipedia talk:German-English translation requests/biography. If the listed article of the category is finished (meaning translated, checked and cleaned up), it is removed and the next is chosen.

Good suggestion? -- Mkill 23:54, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The problem is, I don't think this here is a real project, so I couldn't say much about the participants (there are some users who are fairly active (Gryffindor, Valiantis,myself to a lesser degree); I took the time some weeks ago to go through the requested translations, and especially in the biographies section found some where a german article to translate didn't even exist. Most of those were from User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg, who doesn't really seem to understand English (or German either, because I tried to contact him). I also think that some of the requested articles have already been translated, but no one took the bother to weed them out. Lectonar 08:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree the page is relatively hard to navigate (though I did make some improvements a couple of months ago). As Lectonar says, unlike Wikipedia:Spanish Translation of the Week this isn't a project as such, it's an offshoot of Wikipedia:Translation into English that was hived off as there were so many German to English requests. If you have a look at that page, you will see that this page is more organised (by category) than the articles there - but most languages have far fewer requests than German. The idea of the page is for people to list articles in de:Wikipedia that they think should be ported over to the English Wikipedia. If there were only one article per category I would probably do less translations as I tend to only translate the stuff that appeals to me. I suspect others work the same way (hence, some articles that get listed are translated in days, others have been sitting here for months). 62.25.96.183 15:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC) This unsigned comment was by me Valiantis

I am open to other ideas. Some other ways to improve usability:

1. make a "translation of the week" subpage and list it on the top of the other articles
2. Set a maximum time limit. Suggestions that don't find a translator within three months will be moved to Wikipedia talk:German-English translation requests/Rejected
3. turn the two biggest unfinished groups on this page, jewish biographies and family name disambiguations, to a project of their own.

-- Mkill 17:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

So you would like to make this a project? Go ahead and be Bold, but I think your second propositon should be omitted (no one will ever look at a page with a subtitle "rejected" again, so no chance imho of getting attention to this after being sorted out), as some articles took a long time to get translated at all (see Charlotte von Mahlsdorf), and we don't want to rush the people interested in translations (there aren't that much anyway); after all, wikipedia is not paper. Lectonar 08:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Expect me to be bold soon, but we're still brainstorming. -- Mkill 19:12, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with what others have said here. I've been working on Kurt Tucholsky recently - it was started by User:SteveW in April. I'm now on a break but will get back and do some more when I have time (if someone else hasn't done it). It shouldn't be marked as "rejected" just because it hasn't been translated. Saint|swithin 11:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

In the meantime I've cleared up a bit and moved the biographies to their own page Saint|swithin 21:14, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

In truth, I'm not sure boldness is called for. I'm unclear what would be the advantage in terms of adding new material to the English Wikipedia of reducing the number of translation requests on this page. I don't think the page is more difficult to navigate than (for example) WP:CFD. Whilst I take Mkill's comment that s/he is put off contributing by the number of possible translations in good faith, I'd suggest his/hers is a minority opinion. I'd be put off contributing if there were only a small number of articles and none of them were of interest to me. Valiantis 19:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm a he, I don't think I look so female on my userpage :) Anyway, I tried to start a discussion because I felt something could be done better, and I won't be bold unless people start to support my ideas. I thought this was clear, so I didn't write it explicitely. -- Mkill 03:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think Mkill's feeling is so unusual. I also find the page length annoying. It was worse before, though, and it's now better to navigate than the German equivalent. I wouldn't want to stop anyone from listing an article here, even if one or two people have listed so many articles on minor topics or which are just stubs in the German wiki that it is hard to find the articles which would really boost the English wiki if translated. (I know, who am I to say which articles are important or not? :-))

But I think it would be a great idea to have a translation of the week, if anyone wants to start it up. How does it work? Do you all vote for the one you think should be translated? And then who gets to translate it - how do you stop everyone from working on it at the same time and getting annoyed when they then discover someone else was two seconds faster? Saint|swithin 07:23, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

At the spanish translation of the week they do vote for it (here); why not do it the same way? (obviously they don't see a problem with multiple users working at the same time...--Lectonar 10:36, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

It's worked pretty well, and there is a lot more good material in German.

Two ways to keep it from being a mess: (1) Don't everybody always start translating the first section. (2) If you plan to translate a whole section, start by making a quick, timestamped edit indicating at the top of that section that you are working on it, and would everyone else please stay out of it for an hour or so. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:43, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References

Hi,

I would like to ask whether there is a consesus on how to flag articles translated from German / how to implement the references from there. So far, I have used/ seen used three methods - which is the "agreed" one ? :

• (1) Insert the sentence: "This article incorporates text translated from the [[corresponding German Wikipedia article]] as of some date." at the beginning of the article (e.g. Antiqua-Fraktur-dispute)
• (2) Insert "This article draws heavily on the [[corresponding article]] in the German-language Wikipedia." in the References section (e.g. Peter Harry Carstensen)
• (3) Copy the References across and add the German Wikipedia article as another reference (see for example Almira or Defensive wall)

Any thoughts ? (^ written by me without signature ACH 14:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC))

Definitely a strong consensus against the first option: hat-text is for purposes like disambiguation. Whatever you do, it belongs in the references section.

(2) and (3) are by no means mutually exclusive. I don't know if there is a strong consensus, but I suggest the style of featured article Paragraph 175, the references section of which begins:

Much of the content of this article comes from the equivalent German-language wikipedia article (retrieved September 30, 2004). The following references are cited by that German-language article:

… and then lists the references cited in the German article. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:40, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

That sounds like a good plan. However, do you then add any references which do not appear in the German article before the said sentence ? Good to hear an opinion, anyway . ACH 21:32, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] how do you translate Gemeinderat?

Question: what is the correct translation for Gemeinderat. At the moment I interlinked municipal council, but not too sure... Gryffindor 02:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm.. The Oxford-Duden Dictionary translates it as local council, but since that's a redirect to Local government in the United Kingdom, that's clearly not the right place to link Gemeinderat to. --Angr (tɔk) 09:21, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand municipal council is specifically about France, so that's not right either. I guess you'll just have to write Gemeinderat and then link to that from the German. --Angr (tɔk) 09:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

How about if you write "local council" or "Gemeinderat (local council)" but link it to States_of_Germany#Further_subdivisions as that is where "Gemeinde" is described? Saint|swithin 11:02, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Can't we just expand on the current municipal council article (maybe add a note or link in the local council, and add more information about German, Austrian and Swiss Gemeinderäte? because when I thought of the word "municipal council", I certainly was not thinking of France. I mean Gemeinde = municipality, right? see Gemeindebau. I was also orientating myself by the article Distribution of seats in the Austrian Landtage, where it also talks about municipal council. I guess we could have an article called "Gemeinderat", but since this is the English-language Wikipedia, I'd rather try first with a translation to make it easier for non-German speaking users... Gryffindor 11:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

The translation should, without doubt, be municipality council; however, you'd have to explain how it differs from other uses of the term. —Nightstallion (?) 11:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

The problem with municipality council will be that of size of the community concerned. Gemeinde (the word is the same as in parish) is anything from a village of 200 people to a city of 2 Millions. One will, however, rather think of small communities (and use the word "Stadtrat" for a big city and hence translate Stadtrat with municipality council). That is why the term local council is probably more appropriate. --Olaf Simons 11:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

ok, "municipal council" or "municipality council"? Gryffindor 11:47, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I am no native English speaker. My latin makes me feel that municipium will be something urban, whereas Gemeinde will be anything from village to more (that's why I opted for local council).

Muret-Sanders has (for Gemeinde) municipality, rural commune, parish, local authority, community. I think that as each country has a different system, and they can't really be compared like that, it's perhaps more appropriate to have one article per country describing the way things are organised, rather than trying to squeeze all systems to fit with English names. Saint|swithin 11:34, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, this is more complex than I thought. Just got a note on my talk page from anon I quote ""Municipal council". 66.238.96.53 11:20, 21 January 2006 (UTC)". thank you anon, would be nice to explain a bit more though... I send an email to the Gemeinderat of Vienna, I'm waiting as well to see what they say. Maybe someone could also ask around? Gryffindor 11:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll say it again: The only correct translation must be municipal council. Yes, it's a fact that municipal councils range from representing 200 people up to 1.8 million; that's just how the system works in Austria. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 19:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, but if there's going to be an interwiki link between de:Gemeinderat and Municipal council then they have to be on the same topic. --Angr (tɔk) 19:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Mh. Got a point there, aye. —Nightstallion (?) 21:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Und jetzt? Gryffindor 01:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

"Municipal" certainly suggests an urban settlement to me; that is the sense in which it is normally used in British English. A village could not have a municipal council (though it might have a parish council). I think Saintswithin is correct in suggesting that each country should have a separate article; IMO there is nothing wrong with having an article called Gemeinde on the English Wikipedia which could describe the role of the Gemeinde in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. In articles this could be glossed if necessary. Gemeinderat could then be translated as "council of the Gemeinde - if readers are unsure what a Gemeinde is, they need only click on the link. This is more accurate than trying to come up with a one-size-fits-all translation which may mislead readers. (For example, if reference is made to the municipal council of the little village of Irgendwosdorf, readers may assume that this is a town of at least moderate size as that is what the term "municipal" implies to them). Valiantis 04:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, and any suggestions to Bezirksrat, Bezirksvorsteher, Stadtrat, Klub, Klubobmann, Bundessprecher, Bundesvorstand, and Rotationsprinzip? Really appreciate your help folks. Gryffindor 14:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

• Rotationsprinzip is interesting (principle of rotation) introduced by the Greens in the 1970s to avoid a personalisation of power. Party representatives do not hold their job for the full period, but make way to sucessors after a may be two years. Everyone can be exchanged. The party and its ideas are important, individuals are just speakers expected to hold positions. The principle is also used where groups have to share power. They decide to split the term, so that everyone gets his or her chance to influence processes... --Olaf Simons 14:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

• Mh, another idea for Gemeinderat: How about "borough council(or)"? That's what dict.cc suggests... Regarding your other questions: Bezirksrat -- district council(or), Bezirksvorsteher -- district provost ;), Stadtrat -- city council(or), Klub -- club (politics), Klubobmann -- club chairman, Bundessprecher -- federal spokeswoman/-man/-person, Bundesvorstand -- federal board (politics), and Rotationsprinzip -- rotation principle. What do you say? —Nightstallion (?) 15:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

• • "Borough council" is definitely inappropriate as borough has a quite specific sense in British English which does not necessarily equate to Gemeinde; for rural areas it would be closer to Kreis. Similarly in Quebec and parts of the US, it has various location-specific meanings, many of which do not come close to matching Gemeinde. Translating Bezirk as "district" is tolerable but problematic: - German Bezirke are larger than Kreise and a Kreis is a fairly close approximant of an English district - a Bezirk would be closer to an English county (although that would be a poor translation as the term "county" is historically specific). In Austria on the other hand, Bezirke are not made up of Kreise, so "district" is a reasonably accurate fit. In American English "district" appears to have so many different meanings that, as I said, its nebulousness allows it to be a tolerable translation. There is, by the way, an article on Regierungsbezirk, whilst Kreis re-directs to Districts of Germany (although District is interwikied to de:Bezirk!). Stadtrat = "city council(lor)" (note that this has different spellings in AE & BE); that's straightforward. Klub absolutely does not equal "club" (whether you add (politics) or not). In the UK & in Ireland, the term would be "parliamentary party", in Australia and New Zealand caucus, but I would avoid that term as it has a quite different meaning in American English. As Austria has a parliamentary system, I would suggest "parliamentary party" is the best translation. Klubobmann would then be "chairman of the parliamentary party". German Wikipedia has no article on Bundesvorstand so I'm sceptical of adding an English WP article on federal board (politics). The central leadership committee of a national party has different names in different English-speaking countries and often in different parties within those countries. I'm not aware of any of them being called boards, though I admit the phrase "He is a member of the federal board of the CDU" would suggest roughly what the German "Er ist Mitglied des CDU-Bundesvorstandes" was stating. Valiantis 18:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

County vs. District vs. Borough vs. Municipality

From my US-German point of view, it seems "district" is heavily overused in the english language articles I've seen about German Geography. German "Kreise" are most similar to counties, even though in recent history the German Government couldn't leave them alone and keeps redrawing the lines. Historically, "Kreise" were associated with a local earl or duke. Therefore, I vote for County as the appropriate english equivalent for the German Kreis. German Bezirke are and have always been artificial geographic concoctions with specific reference such as "Wahlbezirk" or "Gerichtsbezirk" and are probably most appropriately translated with "district". To my knowledge, Gemeinden in Germany could be anything from towns to villages to parishes to communities. The principal of best effort should be ok here. Since we will have a hard time finding exact matches between legal definitions of municipalities in different countries. The good thing: City is definitely Stadt! Stadtteil I have also seen translated as district when I believe borough is the most appropriate translation. Regarding municipality, in the US municipalities are all types of local entities within a state. The term includes settlements, villages, towns, all the way to huge cities. Municipal does not mean urban. Hope, this helps. --Mmounties 18:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

well because I'm working on the translation of the Austrian Green Party and if you see the German original you can see what I'm going up against here, it's just nuts. Also, how would you translate Klubobfrau?? I used "club chairlady"... Gryffindor 19:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Stadtteil absolutely should not be translated as borough - this is a peculiarly American usage if the word (as in for example the boroughs of New York) and not the way the word is used in other dialects of English. Valiantis 14:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Klub can not be translated with "parliamentary party". The Klub is more or less the association of members of parliament of a specific party. One can be a member of a parliamentary party without being a member of its Klub. —Nightstallion (?) 14:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

The parliamentary party is the association of members of parliament of a specific party!!! I do not understand your comment. The email published below seems to back this up. Valiantis 14:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Right, I have just received an email from the Grünen concerning "Klubobmann", etc. I am pasting it here.

danke für Ihr Mail an die Grünen!

Im englischen Sprachgebrauch wird der typisch österreichische Begriff für "Klub" üblicherweise mit "Group" übersetzt -etwa "Green Group in the European Parliament".
also ganz einfach:
Klubobmann, -frau: Head of Green Group in Parliament (or City Council);
Bundessprecher: President or Leader or Head of Green Party; Stv.: Vice-President of....)
Bundesvorstand: Executive Committee of Austrian Green Party
für Rotationsprinzip am besten eine/n native speaker fragen... oder erklären
Bundeskongress: Party Congress
NR Klub: Green Group in the Austrian Parliament (bzw. National Council)

Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Ihr Dialogbüro der Grünen

This sounds a lot like what we in the U.S. call a caucus (e.g., in the U.S. Congress, the Democratic Caucus, the Republican Caucus, the Congressional Black Caucus or the Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control). - Jmabel | Talk 06:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Answer: translation for Gemeinderat

Ok, I have just received an Email from the government of Vienna. [1]

(German, English, French)

Gemeinderat = City Council = Conseil municipal

Stadtsenat = City Senate = Bureau exécutif municipal

(Amtsführender) Stadtrat = (Executive) City Councillor = Adjoint au Maire

(Amtsführende) Stadträtin = (Executive) City Councillor = Adjointe au Maire

Bezirksvorsteher = District Chairpersons = Maires d'arrondissements

Bezirksvertretungen = District Councils = Conseils d'arrondissements

Ausschüsse der Bezirksvertretungen = District Council Committees = Commissions des Conseils d'arrondissements

a chart can be seen here [2]

However this part [3] also talks about a "Vienna Provincial Diet", which is what in German? I am assuming that

Landtag = Provincial Diet

I prefer the word "State Assembly" although "-tag" would indeed be "Diet", just like Bundestag is "Federal Diet"? Gryffindor 13:54, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with "assembly". If you said "Provincial Diet" everyone in the US, at least, would think you are talking about a rural diet of sorts, meaning food of course. And the Provinces in Austria are the equivalent of States. So yes, I think "State Assembly" is a more meaningful term. --Mmounties 19:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 4 from 2004

Who wants to help me translate the last four articles requested in 2004? I've done the first one, none look too long! Saint|swithin 21:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I just took the one on the Burgenland. --Mmounties 18:37, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Turns out Burgenland was apparently already done. I left a message on the Zello's page (i.e., the user who has done most of the edits). Therefore, I returned it to "unclaimed". Took Heilbronn and Heidenheim instead.--Mmounties 21:20, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Heard from Zello. He had created the English article from scratch. Will take it on again and compare to the German and augment/revise where needed. --Mmounties 18:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!! Saint|swithin 13:40, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

• When an article is finished and in or through review, do I understand correctly that it's ok to remove the request from the page? I think we must, so not to have a cluttered up list but I'm trying to make sure. Point in case, article on the scottish distilleries under Food and Drink was marked completed in September 2005, but remains on the list for some reason. Not sure why. --Mmounties 21:20, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, when you complete a translation you're supposed to dlete it from the list and enter it at the bottom of the page in the proofreading section. Sometimes people forget. Other times people translate it without even seeing that it's listed on this page: I do go through every now and then and move things which haven't been reported done, but only in my spare time :-) anyone else is welcome to clear up when they see a mess!

• Also, wanted to know how to best proceed on the article requested on Bagel. I took a look and the English article seems to be a LOT more informative than the German one. I'm wondering whether the requestor intended to put it on the English to German request list. So to me it makes no sense to have that request on the list, but what do we need to do to be able to safely take it off? --Mmounties 21:20, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The article may also simply have changed since the request was made. Or perhaps the person who posted the request simply didn't know if there was information in the German article which wasn't in the English one. If you see that something could be taken off, how about contacting the person who posted the request first and checking if it's OK? Saint|swithin 13:40, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] how do you translate "k.u.k. Hoflieferant"?

ok, another question to you my friends: what is the correct translation of "k.u.k. Hoflieferant"? Is it "Imperial and Royal Purveyor to the Court", "Purveyor to the Imperial and Royal Court"? I even found a "Purveyor to his Imperial and Royal Majesty" once somewhere...? Gryffindor 14:36, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd definitely go with one of the latter two. It's the court (and/or the Majesty) that's imperial and royal, not the purveyor. What does Google say? Angr/talk 14:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

One of the latter two will do fine. —Nightstallion (?) 16:43, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I kinda agree. Ok, Bakalowits and Conditorei Zauner say the first version (Imperial royal...etc.), I get 3 hits. Ok, for the second version I get 8 hits, however none on any of the homepages of former kuk Hoflieferanten, which poses a dilemna I think. None on the last, but I swear I read it somewhere, i have to find this again.... Gryffindor 17:51, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:German Wikipedians' notice board

This has just been created and could probably interact with this page nicely. Currently we are moving in the direction of renaming the page to Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board since there is no need to exclude topics related to other German-speaking ares. Please come and join us, Kusma (討論) 04:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adstringenz

I have come across de:Adstringenz in the de:Luo Han Guo article which I am currently translating. However, I could not find any equivalent English term, so I just 'made up' adstringent which isn't a very good solution. Any ideas ? Cheers ACH 12:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it's called astringency in English. Angr/talk 12:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I see you already made the edit. Thanks anyway ACH 14:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation request: Deutsches Reich

I removed the following discussion from the project page because the as-is state seems effivient to me. But the topic might be interesting for other discussants. mamut 19:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

translation Request: de:Deutsches Reich

• Corresponding English-language article: Deutsches Reich
• Worth doing because: No corresponding English article
• Originally Requested by: 17:59, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
• Other notes: There actually is a very long English article at German Empire. It may still be useful to add some of the information in the German article, however (e.g. the section concerning the decision by the Bundesverfassungsgericht). ACH 22:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The difference is, de:Deutsches Reich covers the entire period from 1871 to 1945 (Second Reich, Weimar Republic, and Third Reich), while German Empire covers only the Second Reich, corresponding to de:Deutsches Kaiserreich. My attempt to add an interwiki link from de:Deutsches Reich to German Empire was reverted on those grounds. Angr/talk 17:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

My attempt to add an interwiki link from de:Deutsches Reich to German Empire was reverted on those grounds.

that would be wrong. Deutsches Reich was the official German name for Germany between 1871 to 1945. But German Empire translates to German Kaiserreich. The word Reich can be translated to ~great republic or something like that. It was thus used as a synonym for the Empire, for the first democratic republic and for the fascist regime. (Deutsches Reich was also used before to refer to the The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation). I'll make a en: Deutsches Reich disambiguation page instead, which I will interwiki link with the de:Deutsches Reich article. (after that I'll delete the request here)

in fact thats right, the german empire isnt exactly the Deutsches Reich. As mentioned above the empire and the Weimar Republic both carried this name.--Tresckow 08:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help with translating a paragraph requested

Trying to translate this from de:Chinesisches Haus:

In Stuck gearbeitete Affen mit Musikinstrumenten über den Fenstertüren, Konsolen auf denen Porzellan platziert ist und Kerzenhalter, so genannte Wandbranchen, zwischen den Fenstern, sind allesamt mit Blattgold überzogen.

"Affen" is what really throws me. The only meaning I can find is 'monkeys', and while it could be 'monkeys' it doesn't seem to make sense. I can't find the meaning of "Wandbranchen" either - 'Wand' is obviously wall, and 'chen' probably a diminuitive, so given the context (candle-holders) could 'bran' be something to do with fire? 'Wall torches'? What I've got at the moment is:

Monkeys (?) with musical instruments worked in stucco over the French windows, brackets on which porcelain is placed and candleholders, so-called wall torches (?), between the windows, are all coated with gold leaf.

Obviously I'll rewrite it to fix the syntax as well - German is the only language where you can get away with a paragraph like that. My main problem is those two words. Thanks in advance. --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 13:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I would not translate Wandbranchen - either drop it totally and stick with only candle-holders or leave them as "so-called" or "called in German". Somehow the image the word strikes in my mind is a English-German Hybid: Wall-Wand Branch-Ast - could it be that they stick out of the wall like branches? A quick google search did not give any definition and zero images, but everything todo with that castle. Maybe get someone to look at the English tourguide and see how they translated it.

Anyway instead of monkeys you could use apes - What kind of monkeys are they? Again I have not seen any pictures. Agathoclea 14:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Put this on your talk page, figured I'd post here as well. Affen = apes (or monkeys); wandbranchen = sconce. --Easter Monkey 13:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

After actually looking at the de article I'd say that your monkeys is better then my apes. In my fairly limited experience, I can say that monkeys feature prominently in Asian style art. Little nasty macaques are all over Cambodia (where I live) at least. In the absence of an actual picture to show us what we are actually talking about, I say go with monkeys just as you have.

For the wandbranchen, it's not a hybrid, I'd say that Sam is right. Wand=wall; bran from brennen=burn; chen=diminutive. Sconce is a perfectly good english word, and is exactly what is being described, I say use that instead of candle-holder altogether. --Easter Monkey 14:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

There are some nice pictures on sconce - maybe someone could do the German article for that. Agathoclea 14:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Wandbranche is a hybrid from german word Wand (=wall) and the french word branche (=branch). At that time it was very common to use french words in German language (like Sanssouci, the name of the castle, the chinese house belongs to).

chen as a deminutive doesn't make much sence because Wandbranchen is the plural form, with the last n indicating this. The singular form is Wandbranche and che isn't a (common) deminutive. also bran as a derivate from brennen (burn) doesn't make too much sence because bran is not a existing word form of brennen. it is part of some word forms like verbrannt (burnt), es brannte (it burned) or Brand (~fire) but that all doesn't make much sense anyway. The german-french hybrid variant is much more propable and logical. --BSI 16:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I translated them as 'monkey' and 'wall sconce' respectively. --Sam Blanning (formerly Malthusian) (talk) 17:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

BSI - an aha! to you on the Wandbranche(n). Got it, I understand it now. Sam - good job on the article, it looks good. --Easter Monkey 15:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Bettelheim

A request was made on the English Wiki page for Charles Bettelheim to translate the German Wiki article for him. As I had just finished a translation of the long French Wiki article, I went ahead and looked at the German article and translated several paragraphs from it to the English page as well. But I notice that there is no official request for translation of the page here. I'm not sure how to flag this--it may not need flagging!--but anyway, I've done it. The rest of the article seemed as though it pretty much duplicated the material from the French article. The German translations are marked in the English article, which now includes material from both. NaySay 22:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template for translations

Hi everyone, I've just altered the {{German}} template so it can link to German original articles with a different name. If, for example, someone translated de:Scherenschleifer as Knife grinder today, they could put {{German|Scherenschleifer|8 May 2006}} at the bottom and it would render as:

This article incorporates text translated from the corresponding German Wikipedia article as of 8 May 2006.

Angr (talk • contribs) 07:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requests for disambiguation articles

Hi everyone, there are plenty of requests dealing with disambiguation articles which also demand to translate the related articles. In my opinion this undifferentiated way of translating would make no sense. Apart from that it is clearly above the capacity of the contributing translators. Therefore, I would propose to ask the inquirer to refine his requests and - after reviewing - remove them from the list. I would like to hear your opinion. -- mamut 15:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this is a solution: i summarized the requests after translating the main article. mamut 06:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Once and for all

German translation has become my main WikiActivity in the past few months, and this page is just an unholy mess. There are no two ways about it. I'm going to overhaul the page, and post my changes in a bit. (I'll be doing the actual work on a sub of my User Page so as not to interfere with the work that is currently ongoing). Let me know what you think of my changes when they've been posted. RyanGerbil10 (Drop on in!) 21:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ehrengrab

Is anyone sure of the correct translation of "Ehrengrab", There are many of them in Berlin. But, In my dictionaries I´ve never been able to find a translation that sounds right. Would "Honourary Grave" be OK ? I´d be grateful for some ideas !! --IsarSteve 21:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, tomb honouring the dead of the ... war, war memorial, cenotaph Saint|swithin 16:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ehrengrab -> Memorial grave (please note that, according to the German article, the site is the actual resting place of the person who is commemorated with this special grave site, which is maintained by the city; usually used for important figures or persons of historical significance.(Patrick 06:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

A belated "Thank You" to you both! Patrick´s explanation matches how I´ve seen the word used in Germany. The term "Memorial Grave" is OK but then surely anybody could be entitled to one. An "Ehrengrab" is seen as an Honour bestowed on someone who is given such a grave. --IsarSteve 20:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Of course!

If you are an active translator, and you translate a German FA to en, I would most certainly put you up for RFA :-) Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I've been flat out on RL things. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

What would be an example of a good German FA that requires translation? (Patrick 06:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

de:Wampanoag is one. The English article Wampanoag is pretty scanty in comparison. User:Angr 09:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I would be enormously greatful for any help you can give me in completing this translation of the IG Farben Building - this was a German FA. My schoolboy German is ok to a point and then I get to the paragraph about the controversy over the renaming and I'm lost, particularly:-

"Der ehemalige Universitätspräsident Werner Meißner hatte diesen Streit durch die Umbenennung des Gebäudes in "Poelzig-Ensemble" provoziert. Für ihn verband sich mit der Umbenennung die "Reinwaschung von nationalsozialistischen Bezügen".

Reinwaschung von nationalsozialistischen Bezügen - Absolution from Nazi earnings?!? help.--Mcginnly 14:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Paragraph translation complete, see article for details:

The University's tenancy of the building sparked a debate regarding the building's appellation. Former University President Werner Meißner had started the controversy by renaming the building the "Poelzig-Ensemble" (Poelzig-Complex); to him, renaming the building was associated with the absolution from references to national socialism.

I completely agree with your translation of "Reinwaschung" with "absolution", even though it is kind of an obscure term. The option that came to my mind would have been "discharge". But I like "absolution".

Note how in some instances I had to use adaption, because a literal translation of e.g. "...nirgendwo mehr die Rede..." sounds a little too colloquial, almost "rural", in English: "...the...proposal had become but a moot point..." was the alternative that I used; not the most faithful solution, but I think it conveys the point appropriately.

I have briefly looked over the first few paragraphs and made some minor corrections; I rewrote the paragraph in question starting at "The University's tenancy..." and ending with "...drafted by Ferdinand Kramer in the 1950s and 1960s." Please feel free to review / edit; I will continue to go through the remainder of the article shortly.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll start to look at de:Wampanoag. (Patrick 17:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

I would say in general a translation that conveys the basic meaning while retaining an encyclopedic tone is more important than a literal translation. It's also important to remember that articles at de: are usually written with the assumption that the reader lives in a German-speaking country in Central Europe, while articles at en: have to be much more internationally oriented. I've noticed this when translating flora and fauna articles from German: when it comes to the range of the animal or plant or mushroom in question, they discuss the range outside of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland very vaguely but within those countries very precisely. Doing that in English sounds quite odd. User:Angr 07:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collecting data on the use of umlaut and ß in English language publications

Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board/Umlaut and ß Saint|swithin 11:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IG Farben building help

I've translated a plaque erected in the front of the IG Farben Buildings as:-

This building was designed by the architect Hans Poelzig and erected in the years 1928 to 1931 as the headquarters of IG Farben Industries.

Between 1933 and 1945, as one of the largest chemical concerns of the world, the company put it’s scientific knowledge and production technologies increasingly into the service of the war preparations and warfare of the National Socialist terror regime. From 1942 to 1945 the SS maintained the concentration camp at Buna-Monowitz beside the IG Farben factory at Auschwitz.

Of the ten thousand prisoners forced to work for the company there, most were murdered.

In the National Socialist extermination camps many hundreds of thousands of people, mostly Jews, were killed with the gas Zyklon B, which was sold by an IG Farben company.

From 1945 the building was the seat of the American military government and the High Cmmissioner for Germany. On 19 September 1945 the establishment of the State of Hesse was proclaimed here. From 1952 to 1995 the building was the headquarters of the Vth Corps of US Army.

Aware of the history of the building, the State of Hesse acquired it in 1996 for the Johann Wolfgang Goethe university. In the future it will serve for teaching and research.

Nobody can withdraw from the history of ones people. One should know that the past may not be based on forgetting because otherwise it will come again and become the present. Jean Améry, 1975

I'd be extemely grateful if someone would check this translation from:-

Dieses Gebäude wurde nach den Plänen des Architekten Hans Poelzig in den Jahren 1928 bis 1931 für die Hauptverwaltung der IG Farbenindustrie AG errichtet.

Als einer der damals größten Chemiekonzerne der Welt stellte diese Gesellschaft ihre wissenschaftlichen Erkenntnisse und Produktionstechniken zwischen 1933 und 1945 zunehmend in den Dienst des nationalsozialistischen Terrorregimes, der Kriegsvorbereitung und Kriegsführung. 1942 bis 1945 unterhielt die IG Farben zusammen mit der SS das Konzentrationslager Buna-Monowitz neben ihren Werken in Auschwitz.

Von den Zehntausenden KZ-Häftlingen, die für den Konzern dort arbeiten mussten, wurden die meisten ermordet.

Mit dem Gas Zyklon B, das eine mit der IG-Farben verbundene Gesellschaft vertrieb, wurden in den nationalsozialistischen Vernichtungslagern viele Hunderttausande von Menschen, vor allem Juden, umgebracht.

Ab 1945 war das Gebäude Sitz der amerikanischen Militärregierung und des Hohen Kommissars für Deutschland. Am 19. September 1945 wurde hier die Gründung des Landes Groß-Hessen proklamiert. Von 1952 bis 1995 befand sich in dem Haus das Hauptquartier des V. Corps der US Army.

Im Bewusstsein der Geschichte des Hauses hat es das Land Hessen 1996 für die Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität erworben. Künftig dient es der Lehre und Forschung.

Niemand kann aus der Geschichte seines Volkes austreten. Man soll und darf die Vergangenheit nicht „auf sich beruhen lassen“, weil sie sonst auferstehen und zu neuer Gegenwart werden könnte. Jean Améry, 1975

Many thanks. --Mcginnly 00:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Basically on the mark:

• it's ==> its
• From 1942 to 1945 the SS maintained the concentration camp at Buna-Monowitz beside the IG Farben factory at Auschwitz. ==> From 1942 to 1945 IG Farben, together with the SS, maintained the concentration camp at Buna-Monowitz beside the IG Farben factory at Auschwitz.
• "forced to work for" is clearly factually accurate, but the text is equivalent to just "had to work for"
• "mostly Jews"; again, factually accurate, but the text is more like "above all, Jews" (literally "before all, Jews", but that would not be colloquial English; maybe "most notably Jews"? But "mostly" is not what it says.
• Cmmissioner ==> Commissioner, but I'm sure you knew that.
• Vth Corps ==> Fifth Corps or 5th Corp, we don't much use Vth.
• …Goethe university ==>…Goethe University

Hope that helps. - Jmabel | Talk 21:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recently completed section

What is the difference between this section and the page at: Wikipedia:Translation into English/German Are both of these pages for recently completed translations? Why have both? - Rainwarrior 05:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The operative word is "recently". Things should be here for a few months, then be archived there.

On the other hand, I would say that Wikipedia:Translation into English/German is poorly named. I would recommend merging it with Wikipedia:Translation archive. If that is unacceptable, I would recommend renaming it as Wikipedia:German-English translation archive. - Jmabel | Talk 02:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest changing Wikipedia:Translation into English/German into a redirect and merging its contents into the recently completed section. Wikipedia:Translation archive works fine for archives, I think. - Rainwarrior 03:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bürgerhäuser

I've translated this as simply "The Bürger's house" (I'm translating the medieval section of de:Schwedische Architektur) although I've also seen it translated as "community centre" - can anyone shed any light on this? Many thanks. --Mcginnly | Natter 10:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

According to de:Bürgerhaus there are three different definitions for Bürgerhaus, one in medieval times (which will be the one you want), one in the era of industrialization, and one post WWII (which would be the community center)...I would opt for something like Burghers houseor Freemans house, because being a Bürger in medieval township implicated being a free man, amongst others. Lectonar 16:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks, Burghers house it is then. --Mcginnly | Natter 17:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sheynhertz

the user is banned, but befor that he requested tons of mostly geographical translations of small villages with hardly any relevance. shouldnt that be cleaned up?--Tresckow 08:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe just reduce this to a single list someplace? I doubt that there is anything much to say about any of these requests. - Jmabel | Talk 03:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] de:Palais Strousberg

Hello, I'm translating de:Palais Strousberg. In the Edgeschoss paragraph it says:-

"Oberhalb der kleinen, niedrigen Fenster der Wirtschaftsräume im Kellergeschoss verbanden große, über drei Meter hohe Fenster im Vorzimmer des großen Festsaales, im großen Festsaal und in der Gemäldegalerie die Gesellschaftsräume optisch mit den Gartenanlagen im großen Hof, dessen Fassaden korinthische Säulen unter einem Architrav gliederten"

I'm struggling with Wirtschaftsräume - could this be an Accounts room or is it just the servant's work rooms?
I'm guessing it translated as something like "Above the small, low windows of the accounts room in the basement, large windows (over 3 metres high) optically connected the anteroom of the great festival room, the picture gallery, the festival room and lounges, with the plants and garden in the courtyard. The facade to this courtyard was arranged with corinthian columns united under an architrave. Can anyone help me? --Mcginnly | Natter 12:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The Wirtschaftsräume are utility rooms (for washing things, cleaning up, storing wood, etc). The Corinthian columns, under their architrave, gave the facades a structure/pattern (the columns are in the nominative, and "gliederten", structured, the facades).

Above the small, low windows of the utility rooms in the basement, the windows in the anteroom of the great hall, in the great hall and the portrait gallery, more than three metres high, optically connected these function rooms with the gardens in the great courtyard, whose facades were given structure by Corinthian columns under an architrave.

Saint|swithin 17:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks. --Mcginnly | Natter 17:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I just had another idea: "gliedern" can also mean to divide, so here it could be that the facades are separated by these columns. I can imagine that better - it looks a bit like that in the picture, don't you think, although you can't see the outside? Saint|swithin 06:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Or do you think the Corinthian columns are the ones underneath them, giving them structure? Saint|swithin 07:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

To get at the sense of the paragraph - rather than a word for word translation how about:-

Above the small windows of the Servants' quarters in the basement; the windows in the great hall, its anteroom and the portrait gallery, stood more than 3 metres tall overlooking and connecting the rooms with each other and the gardens in the large courtyard. The facades that faced onto this courtyard were given a unifying treatment with Corinthian columns dividing the glazing.

Maybe? --Mcginnly | Natter 15:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GV?

I'm working on translating de:Saalbach-Hinterglemm and can't figure out how to translate GV - it's the title/position of people on the Gemeinderat/Gemeindevertretung. I've translated Gemeinderat/Gemeinderaetin as council member so far - any suggestions for either would be appreciated! Sewerrat 21:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen both district council and municipal council used. Although it has to be noted that most translations I have found use the latter of the two. Hope that helps. Aetherfukz 07:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

GV = most likely Gemeindevertreter here, seeing the context (an example on Google: "Die Gemeindevertretung Selent besteht aus 13 Gemeindevertreter/Innen (GV)" [4] although it also stands for Gemeindevorstand. See also Wikipedia:German-English translation requests/Translation guide for Gemeinde etc. Saint|swithin 19:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Wikipedia:Translation

Hello!

The translation project has been entirely revamped and is now at Wikipedia:Translation. The new page dealing with translations from German is at Wikipedia:Translation/ de Wikipedia:Translation/ lang/de . Wikipedia:German-English translation requests is to be redirected to the new German translation page.

If you have any questions or comments, please post them on the project's talkpage.

Marialadouce | parlami 19:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

1. "the project's talkpage", unlinked, is very vague. What project? Could you please link to the project you mean?
2. Do you really mean to have a space after a slash in the link above ("Wikipedia:Translation/ de")? That goes against conventions.
3. Is there work under way to move the outstanding requests from here to there? Will entries disappear from this page as they are moved to the new system, or what? I'm finding this confusing. - Jmabel | Talk 06:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Right, sorry: the talkpage I mentioned is the one at Wikipedia talk:Translation/ de, which has not yet been used, or the main project's talkpage: Wikipedia talk:Translation. We are, however, keeping an eye on all the old projects' talkpages as well, so no worries if you post here instead, as we'll see it. :-)

The space - or rather, the underline: _ - after the slash was Jean-Michel's idea. If it is against conventions, he'd be glad to change all the language-specific pages' links. We had no idea there were rules against it. It would be useful if you could point us to the page with linking rules so we don't make more mistakes.

• It's not so much rules as customs: we simply don't ever form titles that way. - Jmabel | Talk 07:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, all the current translation requests will be moved to the new page, as will the ones in progress. Jean-Michel hasn't gotten around to doing it yet, having been very busy getting all the pages up and running after the change from three language-specific projects (French, German, Japanese) to several (including Polish, Chinese, etc).

Marialadouce | parlami 08:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there work under way to move the outstanding requests from here to there?

No because it's already done ;-) See Wikipedia:Translation/ lang/de

Jmfayard 10:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Then how come there are still a bunch of requests on this project page? And can we please change that other page to Wikipedia:Translation/lang/de? No one working in English is going to be used to putting a space after a slash in this sort of title. - Jmabel | Talk 07:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm confused: Wikipedia talk:Translation/ de seems to follow yet another convention for naming (it doesn't match the new project page). -- Jmabel | Talk 07:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming convention

Hello Jmabel,

let's sort out this name convention problem one time for all.

What I was trying to do was to separate the translation subpages (marked with (*) below) which can become hundreds, from the small number of pages we use for the projects.

I thought that a flat hierarchy would have been wrong :

FLAT HIERARCHY

WP:TR/Anti-WAAhnsinns-Festival (*)
[...]
WP:TR/Completed Translation/November 2006
[...]
WP:TR/Holstentor (*)
[...]
WP:TR/Lang
WP:TR/Lang/de
[...]
WP:TR/Linux (*)
[...]
WP:TR/Translation Requests
WP:TR/Translation Requests/November 2006
[...]
WP:TR/Wendisch-Deutsche Doppelkirche (*)

It could have been :

DIRECTORY FOR THE TRANSLATIONS SUBPAGES

WP:TR/Article/Anti-WAAhnsinns-Festival
WP:TR/Article/Holstentor
WP:TR/Article/Linux
WP:TR/Article/Wendisch-Deutsche Doppelkirche
[...]
WP:TR/Completed Translation/November 2006
WP:TR/Lang
WP:TR/Lang/de
WP:TR/Translation Requests
WP:TR/Translation Requests/November 2006

But I thought that the syntax {{Wikipedia:Translation ???? Linux}} will be used very very often and also must be as simple as possible.

So on :fr, I added a "*" directory to seperate the pages which are parts of the project

WP:TR/*/Completed Translation
WP:TR/*/Completed Translation/November 2006
WP:TR/*/Translation Requests
WP:TR/*/Translation Requests/November 2006
[...]
WP:TR/Anti-WAAhnsinns-Festival
WP:TR/Holstentor
WP:TR/Linux
WP:TR/Wendisch-Deutsche Doppelkirche

Then I came here and saw that they were here independant "regional projects". I had intially the bad idea to follow this and to divide the project in 4 (French, German, Japanese and all the others). So it became :

WP:TR/_fr/Completed Translation
WP:TR/_fr/Completed Translation/November 2006
WP:TR/_fr/Translation Requests
WP:TR/_fr/Translation Requests/November 2006
WP:TR/_de/Completed Translation
WP:TR/_de/Completed Translation/November 2006
WP:TR/_de/Translation Requests
WP:TR/_de/Translation Requests/November 2006
WP:TR/_**/Completed Translation
WP:TR/_**/Completed Translation/November 2006
WP:TR/_**/Translation Requests
WP:TR/_**/Translation Requests/November 2006
[...]
WP:TR/Anti-WAAhnsinns-Festival
WP:TR/Holstentor
WP:TR/Linux
WP:TR/Wendisch-Deutsche Doppelkirche

This idea proved to be completly wrong. This Wikipedia:Translation/_de thing was never used and will never be because the actual system is much better:

Now, every translation request is put on Wikipedia:Translation AND there is one very simple page for each language (the URL can be changed but now it is at Wikipedia:Translation/_lang/de). The reason why the old translations requests are still here, is simply that I left time for the discussion before merging Wikipedia talk:German-English translation requests with Wikipedia:Translation/_lang/de and redirecting the first to the second (or his new URL if it changes).

Now, back to the naming convention.

Because "_**" sucks more than ever when there are no "_de", "_fr" counterparts anymore, I used this "_lang/XX" sheme without really thinking about it.

What do you like most ? A flat hierarchy ? The "*" directory like in fr:Projet:Traduction ? Something else ?

Jmfayard 13:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Jmfayard, but I'll admit I'm still confused.

I still don't see how it helps anything to put a space (or an underscore: on the Wiki they are indistinguishable in page names) after a slas; I cannot think of any other case where this is done on the English Wikipedia when the slash indicates a project subpage.

Yes, using "WP:TR/Lang/…" makes sense for anything language specific.

I don't really understand how this new scheme works (admittedly, I haven't spent a lot of time studying it, and I won't really "emerge" from other projects for at least a few more days; is there a comprehensive description of it in any one place? If so, I haven't seen it). Do I understand correctly that:

1. We have one page to track each article that is to be translated, and then we can transclude those in multiple places (by language, by subject, whatever)
2. The page tracking the translation of any given article can be shown in a short form for convenient transclusion, as well as a long form?

I'm also very confused about how you are doing the cut-over from one form of handling this to another. I gather that at this point you have copied a lot of requests, but also left the originals in place. This seems to have potential for a mess. What if one person says in one place that they will take it on, and a different person says that in the other? What happens when someone completes a translation, but the other version of the same translation request is still sitting there?

Presumably I'm not the only person confused by any of this; the lack of commentary from anyone else worries me, if we are planning to cut over to this different way of doing things: are any significant number of the many translators actually involved in this and understanding what is going on? I have to suspect not. - Jmabel | Talk 09:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

is there a comprehensive description of it in any one place?

Of course: Wikipedia:Translation/*/How-to - the link to this is at the top of Wikipedia:Translation, but if you want, we can try to make it more visible.

We have one page to track each article that is to be translated, and then we can transclude those in multiple places (by language, by subject, whatever)

Not by subject, but by language, as can be seen on the main project page.

The page tracking the translation of any given article can be shown in a short form for convenient transclusion, as well as a long form?

Yes, the short form being at the top of the article page and the long form being the page used to track the article (as per your previous question above).

The project is really quite simple to use; please at least try to pick one random article and use the new project on it. Then ask questions and recommend changes wherever you see they are needed.

I also think that much of the problem is that the old translation projects on en: have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, thus making communication between each group of translators difficult. This is probably why no one else seems to be asking questions about the new project; the other is that there's much less translating being done on en:, given its size compared to other Wikipedias and the fact that much of the sources available are in English.

Happy Festivus! Arria Belli/Marialadouce | parlami 12:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC) Don't panic! Yes, I just changed my username on en:, fr: and it:.

[edit] Überfremdung

I just translated Front Deutscher Äpfel. I'm tempted to give de:Überfremdung a go; either a full translation, or a few paragraphs, that I can then link to from Xenophobia, etc., as combatting Überfremdung is a "goal" of the DFÄ. I just translated Überfremdung as "Overforeignisation" in the DFÄ article. Can anyone suggest anything better? In the context of DFÄ, I didn't mind using an absurdist word to describe the concept, but in writing and actual article, I suppose we need a word that sounds serious, self-important, and violent. LEO lists "foreign infiltration", but that just sounds over the top, something to be used in espionage and warfare.
I get the feeling the article would get picked up as non-NPOV/Speedy Deletion before the reader even realises that it's about using "Überfremdung" as a motivation, rather than declaring the state/process of Überfremdung to be noteworthy. samwaltz 11:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, Überfremdung is up. I posted a similar notice on the de.wikipedia page, saying I was doing so, and now have someone from the German site who wants me to treat Überfremdung as a serious concept (describing how Berlin is becoming überfremdet), and not as a NS Schlagwort. Thoughts? Oh, btw, if anyone feels like translating more, go for it. I think one section suffices for the English version, whereas the German page has several. samwaltz 22:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation Request

Can anyone please translate the following sentence to English, objectively as possible: "Mögen wir zehnmal von Juden abstammen und ich im Princip noch so sehr für Gleichberechtigung der Hebräer sein, im socialen Leben sind mir Christen lieber ..."--Gilisa (talk) 11:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)