Talk:Dakuten

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s quality scale.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s importance scale.

It's my understanding that no one used the maru until the Meiji era kana spelling reforms. Is this correct? --Carl 12:50, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

In my high school Japanese class, we called them den-dens - is this used at all? Also, am I correct that づ is read "du" or "tzu"? I think it's pretty rare, but should it be listed in the table here? MC MasterChef 11:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard "den den" in Japan, which is not to say it isn't possible, but it's not common I think - try a search on Google. づ is pronounced the same as ず. See Japanese phonology. --DannyWilde 12:26, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

づ is pronounced the same as ず in Tokyo dialect (standard Japanese), but there are other dialects where づ is pronounced [dzu], and ず is pronounced [zu]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.164.155.252 (talk • contribs) .

Contents 1 Mnemonic device 2 Ka + handakuten 3 Mid-word Shifts 4 Bidakuon

[edit] Mnemonic device

I've never encountered the mnemonic device method. I'm a non-native speaker, and s->z; t->d; h->b,p;k->g always just seemed like the most logical progressions. Maybe the article should say something along the lines of "some non-native speakers..." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.61.47.31 (talk • contribs) .

Agreed. The progression from unvoiced to voiced is a logical linquistic change. This mnemonic device business seems uncommon or specific to a particular method. Is this a documented tool? I'd like to see something about this from a relavent source before I pull it as it doesn't seem useful within the context of the article, but I'd like to have some sort of check before I go deleting things. LemonSmints 03:04, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ka + handakuten

If you're going to include "ka + handakuten" in the chart, then please find an actual ka + handakuten, instead of trying to create one out of incorrect characters. Using the wrong characters will only confuse readers. Thanks. Druff 17:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

In what way are the characters incorrect? --Ptcamn 17:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what it's supposed to be, but I see only a question mark and looking at the source reveals the same thing (ie. it's not a broken Unicode char, but you're actually entering a "?". Try ゜ instead. Jpatokal 00:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

That has to be a problem on your end, since I see a handakuten.

゜ is a free-standing handakuten, and in fullwidth fonts it'd have a large space around it. I was using ゚, which is a combining character. --Ptcamn 05:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I have full Japanese text encoding on my system, but on my end all I see is a tiny black square that doesn't look like a handakuten at all. However, I just copied and pasted that one character and did a google search for it, and I did get back a bunch of Japanese websites using the it, though on my end it seems to be a generic substitute for both dakuten and handakuten. For example, there was a page advertising some kind of panda bear plushie, but the pa and da in "panda" both had the same generic black square next to them, rather than a proper dakuten and handakuten. If this is just a problem with our encoding, then go ahead and revert the entry back into the article, and sorry for the hassle. Druff 16:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I've never heard of a ŋa character, and I've studied katakana quite extensively. Do you happen to have a source for that? If you want to include it in the article, you should also add some information about it... —Nightstallion (?) 12:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't have an offline source, but there's a bit on the internet: [1] [2] [3] --Ptcamn 16:02, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mid-word Shifts

When kanji are placed together to form a word, certain sounds make the following character begin with a dakuon. Should there be a section on this here? I know I studied it way back in my first year of Japanese, but it has long since become automatic or consistently mistaken.... Doceirias 22:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bidakuon

Contrary to the assertion of an editor, the character か゚ does exist, even though it's not used in normal Japanese. It has a codepoint assigned in Shift-JIS and can be generated with Unicode composites (as above). Jpatokal 03:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)