Talk:Capoeira music

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Contents 1 Page Creation 2 Toques 3 More or less appropriate 4 abalou capoeira 5 Cleaned up 6 Also 7 Melody , syncopation, improvisation 8 Notation

[edit] Page Creation

Hi, I don't know if this page belongs on Wikipedia or not, so I welcome any opinions to the contrary. I thought, however, that the music section of Capoeira was lacking without a few example songs.

Feel free to add more songs. Try to keep the list alphabetized and the formatting the same throughout. If when you open the edit page and it tells you that the page has become too large, post here. This will never pretend to be an exhaustive list, however, so the page should not be allowed to get too big.

--Asbestos 13:00, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Toques

If anyone has a sheet music program that could be used to make an image of the toques, that would be very helpful. I haven't found a non-copyrighted image on the web, and hesitate to try to write it clearly using ASCI.

Examples of toques can be found at [1] (4 languages)and [2]

--Asbestos 14:59, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't think a monster list of toques belongs here, but one or two to explain their general character would be a good idea. There's no really standard notation for them, though (at least, the various books I've read all use different notations). But see also berimbau, where there's a list, with no descriptions, and an audio sample of the toque de angola with variations (probably too many to be a good example). Andrew 06:17, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

I can write out the basic toques, but where to put them? Here or the berimbau article or in a new article 'Capoeira Toques'... let me know (new here to the wiki world). Also, there seems to be dispute over even the basic forms of some of the toques. eg. in the second link you provided the Cavalaria mirrors what I’ve been taught, but the Iuna and Regional are much simplified. I guess all this should be reflected in the entry... Coalhada

i answered my own question. Creating a new entry Capoeira Toques.

[edit] More or less appropriate

Great work on this page, Asbestos. With regards to whether it is appropriate for Wikipedia as it is now, I firmly believe that it is, but have a few comments:

1. Capoeira songs doesn't really fit with Wikipedia's naming conventions, so I have moved it.
2. I reworded the first sentence on the grounds of Neutral Point-of-View
3. Most importantly, the songs that are currently part of the article -- where do they come from? If they are copyrighted, then they can't be included here (though quotes from them can be). If they are old folk songs that aren't copyrighted, they could be included but shouldn't be except to illustrate a specific point (though they could be moved to Wikisource). Tuf-Kat 02:53, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

Hi TUF-KAT, thanks for your comments (and for moving the article). The songs are all old folk songs, and certainly have no copyrights attached to them. My reason for inserting them is that the songs of capoeira add to the understanding of capoeira music, and of the game, especially as many of them recount the histories of the game or of the teachers. This was never going to be a large list of songs, but rather a select few. Let me know if you think that this isn't appropriate, however. --Asbestos 04:48, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I suppose it's not too bad as is, though I'll warn you that someone else will likely remove them sooner or later. Tuf-Kat 11:26, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

I agree that capoeira songs do tell something about the game (if you speak Portuguese) but I don't think Wikipedia is the place to host a large collection of songs. However, copyright permitting, I think since the songs are so short, it's reasonable to include an example or two of each type. For example, writing an example ladainha followed by an example louvaçao (the article calls them chulas) would help clarify how the roda begins; writing some examples of quadras and of other particular types of corrido would be nice.

As the page stands now, it looks too much like it's trying to become a song database. That's not appropriate for Wikipedia (although perhaps for Wikisource, if copyright permits). I would not count on copyright permission for all the songs, though. While many (most?) are effectively folk songs, some songs were written by a particular mestre who has a plausible copyright claim on them.

So, my suggestion is this: rewrite the article so it talks about capoeira music, with things like:

• What are songs about?
• What kinds of songs are there?
• When is each song sung?

Then illustrate these answers with a song or two.

If nobody complains about this idea, I'll try to do it. Andrew 06:09, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

There is definately a need for a wiki style database for capoeira songs, but you are correct that it does not belong in the wikipedia proper. I agree with Aarchiba that there is an abundance of material about the music of capoeira that could be written here. The issue I see is in maintaining npov. Any discussion of the music of capoeira, including the bateria, the context of songs, their meaning, etc, is all heavily influenced by style (angola, regional, contemporanea, atual, etc), school, and individual mestres. For example, if you ask any angola mestre, he will tell you that ladainhas are the province of capoeira angola, and that Bimba sung quadras at the begining of his rodas. But most contemporary schools incorporate elements of the "traditional" bateria and song styles, and they sing ladainhas. I don't believe I have the wiki writing chops to dodge that particular bullet.--Spyrral 19:09, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] abalou capoeira

as far as i know, it's an erroneous (yet common) version of "abalou cajoeira abalou", the cajo tree shook. I'm not sure so I'm not deleting it.

[edit] Cleaned up

I reworked this page to include more specific information about the music. I also got rid of the toques section and linked it to the berimbau page because there is much more info there. If anyone has anything else to add, go for it.

Jmckaskle 19:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Also

The lyrics provided are public domain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmckaskle (talk • contribs) 19:42, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Melody , syncopation, improvisation

I've added more on melody (both vocal melody and berimbau melody) and information about syncopation and improvisation in the music and how the supporting instruments work together to lay a rhythmic foundation.

Jmckaskle 01:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the 'NB' section at the bottom, in particular the use of multiple atabaques - In my group, Cordão de Ouro, we usually use 2 atabaques in our rodas. I've never been to any other groups' rodas, but I think we should get a source about the 'standard' bateria (for lack of a better term). Richard Jackson 14:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks for the feed back. I'll look for sources to back up the blanket statement. Two atabaques in a roda is a rarity in capoeira, but not unheard of. Where is your group located? Jmckaskle (talk) 20:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The musical characterizations were a great help to me. I do find references to toadas in capoeira literature, and recordings in many places, yet there is no mention of toadas here. A brief characterization of toadas by someone trained in music would, I believe, not be out of place. translator (talk) 22:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notation

What is the source for the notation for the Angola and São Bento Grande toques? Using half notes in place of quarter notes is confusing for anyone who knows how to read music. If no one objects, I'll write out them out in proper notation. Focomoso (talk) 06:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)