Talk:Basketball
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[edit] Discrepancy about the inspiration in English and French articles
The English article states that Naismith was inspired by the medieval game Duck on a Rock. However, the French article speaks of Naismith being inspired by "an old Maya ballgame", the Mesoamerican ballgame. Is any of them unfounded? Are they both only theories? The Duck on a Rock article already presents it as an hypothesis. If so, it should be mentioned, explained. --Liberlogos 07:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well, the Duck on a Rock statement from this article is referenced, and the one on the French article isn't...
- That said, the Duck-on-a-Rock thing is a rather recent thing and whether it has backing by most historians is probably another story... It is, however, founded on his "handwritten diaries". The French article doesn't seem to mention a similar sort of backing (then again, my French isn't that great).
- This article (as far as I'm aware) isn't really watched by anyone who knows what they're talking about (I don't really know what I'm talking about), but you can visit the page listed in note 1 if you want to see where we got the Duck on a Rock thing. Neonumbers 09:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
About the Myan Game, I have a book that mentions the possibility of it being the origins or something. Ill see if I can find out more
Robotboy2008 07:56, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I just found it Ziggy's Olympic Book Ball Games Page 11 ISBN 1-86007-155-4
Robotboy2008 08:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] When the name "Basket Ball" was suggested
In the section "History", paragraph three, it is stated when the first official basketball game was played. Then this statement follows: "'Basket ball', the name suggested by one of Naismith's students, was popular from the beginning." Was the name indeed suggested around the time of the first official game? If not, should this statement possibly be moved to an earlier paragraph? There could be some confusion as to when the name "basket ball" was suggested. Just a thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.46.150.109 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC). kristina lacree
I question whether this paragraph should be used at all. It seems to hold a discrepancy between how the name was determined: by Naismith himself or by a student's suggestion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.144.18 (talk) 20:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Naismith was Canadian born, not Canadian; plus, this is only relevant in the scope of the Duck game
http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/Naismith.htm
Though he was born in Canada and adapted rules from a Canadian childhood game, James Naismith was an American and stayed in the US -- getting a medical degree in THE US, working in THE US, and serving in the US MILITARY. Therefore, he was not a 'Canadian physician from McGill' for two reasons: number one, that is irrelevant, if true. Number two, he wasn't a physician, he got his medical degree in the US many years later. All of his jobs listed were held in the US. The only reference to McGill that makes sense is the Doctorate degree from McGill. HOWEVER, Google shows that it was an HONORARY doctorate, which means that the only Canadian reference after he moved to Springfield, MA, is an honorary degree, which means even that wasn't completed in Canada (it's an honorary degree, there are no classes to attend.)
To recap: Any information about where he went to college should be in his own page, not basketball's. And, he was not a Canadian physician. He just had a four year degree at the time he moved to the US, so how could he be a physician. He went to medical school in the US many years later, living all over the US, as well as served in the Kansas (US) state military. Therefore, he's not a Canadian Physician from McGill but a Canadian-born college graduate from McGill, which has nothing to do with Basketball, so I omitted it from the Basketball page.
I moved the new discovery reported in ESPN to the next page, and mentioned that he was born in Canada, in that same paragraph, for comprehension. The way it was right now, saying Naismith was a Canadian Physician from McGill who happened to be working at the YMCA is incorrect. It's actually more correct to say he was an American Physician from Colorado, US who invented Basketball, because that's where he went to medical school and he was an American, but Canadian born. But even that is not accurate (nor relevant) because he wasn't actually a physician at the time, NOR is what he is known for. So even if you mention the exact school he went to, that is irrelevant because he is not KNOWN for being a physician, nor was he a physician when he invented it (it was many years later.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Volleyball123 (talk • contribs) 04:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC).
- Naismith's mother and her parents came to Canada from Scotland and Australia in 1852, and his father arrived (also from Scotland) in 1853. Naismith was born in Canada, which would make him Canadian. He did not become a naturalized American citizen until 1925, in order to fulfil a requirement of his military service. That event occurred 34 years after he invented basketball. You cannot retroactively declare him to be an American in 1891, plus you haven't indicated whether or not he retained dual citizenship after 1925. In short, before making what is a fairly significant change to commonly understood details about his life, you should probably discuss them here first and get some feedback. --Ckatzchatspy 05:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC) (info sourced from the Naismith Museum)
Volleyball123 14:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)I was not arguing that he is not Canadian or from McGill. The point is that the mcGill reference is still unnecessary and irrelevant (nothing to do or relating to basketball of physical education.) It is also not true that he was a Canadian physician. If you move to the US and invent basketball at 30, are you automatically a Canadian physician from McGill? No--he was not a physician. The way the article reads right now, Naismith was a doctor from Canada who received a medical degree from McGill who then invented Basketball while in the US. That is not correct. If you get a medical degree from UConn but you went to Harvard for undergraduate, it is misleading to say you are a physician from Harvard (plus unnecessary to mention the college name except for those alumni from that college.) The only college on that page that should even be mentioned is Springfield College. Next year, his high school will want representation at the top of the basketball page, too. Why Springfield College? Because that is where it was invented. What was? Basketball. It's a page about basketball, not James life history. Plus he got a degree from four places, not just McGill. To repeat, there is no way "a Canadian physician from McGill" is accurate or necessary to the Basketball article.
A lot of Canadians think the sport was invented IN Canada. Literally. Saying Canadian-born would clarify to everybody that he was born in Canada, but give hint that it was only as a child. He lived in the US almost his entire life, and that's where he invented basketball. I can't believe you can't see how the statement "a Canadian physician from McGill" is accurate or necessary to the Basketball article in any way. Plus, since he was an American SOLDIER (keyword American and keyword Soldier), it makes no sense to say Candian when you can say "Canadian-born" instead. It is more accurate.
Right now, the article has a heavy Canadian slant. And, the McGill reference has no reason to be there. Springfield College earned the right to be there. It's an article about Basketball. The way it is right now, anybody who glances at the Basketball page will think that Naismith was born in Canada, became a physician in Canada, and had nothing to do with the US except inventing it in Springfield. And, that the McGill reference is more important than the YMCA reference. This is an article about BASKETBALL. The first line is extremely unreadable.
Plus, not only was Springfield College the birthplace of basketball, but that's where Naismith got his physical education degree. He got a philosophy degree from McGill. Completely irrelevant to the basketball article! He also got a medical degree from Colorado, why not mention that? It would be more accurate to say he's a physician from University of Colorado than physician from McGill.
- I'll leave the rest of your changes to see what others think. However, I have replaced the word "Canadian" as it accurately describes Mr. Naismith, and is supported by references throughout the article (including the one you used.) Further to this, I think it is stretching things to claim that the article has "a heavy Canadian slant" - either in the previous version or as it is now written. There are currently only six references to Canada, including a mention of the sport spreading throughout the U.S. and Canada; examples of players from nations other than the U.S.; and that the first NBA game was played in Toronto. --Ckatzchatspy 18:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Volleyball123 12:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC) It is much easier to read and understand the first sentence right now. The introductory sentence is no longer three lines long. And, it no longer states that Naismith was a physician or minister at the time, in "December of 1891." Nationality-wise, he's 100% scottish, though, as his parents were from Scotland and he was born 10 years after his parents moved to Canada, and after 30 years, he seems to have resided in the US for the rest of life. Should we say Scottish-Canadian ? There is a page on Wikipedia about scottish-canadians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish-Canadian
- Why is it such an issue to accept that someone born and raised in Canada is...Canadian? There is no need to qualify it. --Ckatzchatspy 17:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Traveling
Can't you only take two steps with the ball until the ball goes to the other team? It didn't mention it in the dribbling section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magic System (talk • contribs) 01:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC).
- It's the second sentence in the second paragraph under "Violations". Mishatx *разговор* 04:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanx
[edit] Double Dribble
Does anyone know if they consider double dribbles in the NBA?
thanx Magic System 15:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
-
- Yes, they do consider double dribbling in the NBA. It is one of the primary rules of the game of basketball. If a player is dribbling and happens to pick up the ball with both hands and then continue to dribble, the call is double dribbling. Also in some cases, if a player shoots an airball and catches it themselves, that can also be called double dribbling. I don't think that the rule should be different from unprofessional to professional basketball players. Of course, professional players are compensated for their work, but the basis rules of the game should remain for everyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.86.136 (talk) 20:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fouling
Can someone please tell me what the fouls are in basketball more detailly? I don't really get it from reading the article lol. SSBM Pro 03:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC) SteveNash11
- The fouls section is quite detailed and contains a link to personal foul. It looks fine to me. —LOL 04:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC) Double drible- dribbling with two hands, picking up the ball then dribbling again Travling-picking up the ball and running Thoses are just two of the fouls 205.206.27.233 (talk) 15:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)breana
[edit] Role in African American culture?
The article doesn't say anything about the specific popularity of basketball in African American culture. Maybe it's a myth, but I thought basketball tended to be favored over other sports in African American communities, and that the proportion of black players at college and professional levels is higher than in the general US population. Can anyone affirm this and write a paragraph on the subject? Mtford 03:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with Mtford above... there (seriously) is no question that basketball is highly favored by African-Americans due to the influence in popular culture and television. While early on and in other foreign countries this isn't the case, this is definitely the case in America. Very few white players are on the teams (or I COULD be wrong if anybody can provide factual statistics). Anyways, back to the point, I definitely think there should be a category on African American roles in basketball Jerre 01:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Would this topic be better listed under a popularity section? Baseball has a section that touches on ethnic popularity. Should basketball also have one? Should the article mention how Bill Russell was a black player-coach? Or other instances of racial tolerance in the sport? As for the popularity of basketball in the African-American culture look at where a lot of the players come from. Inner cities with low budgets don't have the overhead to promote, for example, ice hockey. Baseball, football, basketball and track sports have low overhead. Personally I think the article could suffer if we attempted to include the viewpoint of race. This path of logic leads us to racial profiling. Nohbohdhy (talk) 18:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] When?
- Naismith's handwritten diaries, discovered by his granddaughter in Spring 2006
The above excerpt violates the chronological guidelines for seasonal references in the Wikipedia Manual of Style (MOS). Please correct this with neutral wordings. Some examples of more suitable wordings may be found in the MOS. -- B.D.Mills (T, C) 04:02, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- —Done. The "Spring" (which should have been "spring" anyway), according to the article cited by this one in reference no. 4, (presumably) refers to the spring of the Northern hemisphere, which I have written as "early 2006". (I live in the Southern hemisphere, and our autumn is March to May, so correct me if I'm wrong.) Neonumbers 09:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Draw
Oddly enough I can't find any reference that a game can't end in a draw, neither here nor at the rules' article. Have I missed it or is it missing? - Nabla 19:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- A game only ends in a draw if the game is an exhibition/friendly game. Otherwise, all games must determine a winner, no matter how long it takes. (see Overtime (sports)#Basketball for details. --Howard the Duck 03:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- I knew that but thank you, anyway. The point was that it is odd that it is not mentioned in this article at all. - Nabla (talk) 02:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Games actually can end in a draw in another circumstance: a scorer's error that is only discovered after the end of the game. This actually has happened before including in a game between the University of Kentucky and Kentucky Wesleyan College. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.111.116 (talk) 20:28, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- I knew that but thank you, anyway. The point was that it is odd that it is not mentioned in this article at all. - Nabla (talk) 02:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Basketball Around the world
Basketball is very popular in many countries around the world. It would be good to add in some information in relation to the European competition and the Oceania competition www.nbl.com.au —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.4.207 (talk) 03:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
In Spain now, there are great players that in the future they are suposed to be NBA players. Please don't forget these names, you'll hear them in a short period of time: Santi Sepúlveda, David Castellà and Josep Franch........ Pujadas is not as good as them...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.145.55.244 (talk) 10:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Basketball parity worldwide
Someone's started an article at basketball parity worldwide as part of a school project. I suggest we merge it into this article. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:20, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Error that needs to be corrected
The part of the article that mentions the American Basketball Association still contains a tag that reads "American Basketball Association (1967-1976)", which was the result of vandalism by someone who converted a lot of ABA articles and links in an effort (it seems) to promote the current minor league ABA. This should be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.111.116 (talk) 20:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
This may be a minor grammatical thing to fix, but I can't do so beause of the semi-protection. The phrase in the second paragraph regarding scoring, "Points are scored by shooting the ball through the basket from above", needs to be fixed. Just delete the word "from" - otherwise it seems to say that the players are above the basket shooting down at it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.240.169 (talk) 13:47, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fouling Out
In the fouling section of the basketball article, how one can foul out in a game is ambiguously stated. According to the section, technical fouls are counted in the 5 or 6 foul criterion for fouling out. This may be true in international competition, but in the NBA, this is most definitely not true; only personal fouls are counted. The section must be updated immediately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saadlink1 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
