Talk:Bahá'í calendar

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Contents 1 WikiProject Time assessment rating comment 2 Dates contradiction 3 Spellings 4 Specific references and quotations 5 Name of Bahá'í solar calendar system 6 Month days 7 Revert re. spellings 8 Arabic Script 9 B.B.E.? 10 about merge with Bahá'í Era 11 Conflict with previous Scripture 12 External Links

[edit] WikiProject Time assessment rating comment

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—Yamara ✉ 17:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dates contradiction

Someone has pointed out to me an apparent contradiction in this article. It states, "Years in the Bahá'í calendar begin at the vernal equinox (usually March 21 in the Gregorian calendar)." However, definite Gregorian dates are given throughout the article, suggesting that dates do not vary between the two calendars. If the quoted statement is true, then the Gregorian dates can only be approximate, in which case the article should say so.

I have also been told that dates are calculated using different reference locations, such as Teheran or Haifa, and sometimes from the Gregorian calendar, i.e. the new year always starts on March 21. Thus, different people are apparently using different dates on the Bahá'í calendar. Perhaps someone who knows about the Bahá'í calendar could clarify this. -- Nike 05:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My understanding is that the calendar was "set" to Gregorian dates some time after it was originally envisioned (mid-19th century). As such, the exact dates as on the article are correct and fixed (in the eyes of a modern Baha'i). I'm not sure enough to edit the article though, but I'll see if I can find out. -- Tomhab 09:53, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

`Abdu'l-Baha explained the significance of Naw-Ruz in terms of the symbolism of the new life of spring. Baha'u'llah defines Naw-Ruz as the Baha'i day on which the vernal equinox occurs. Thus, even if the equinox should occur just before sunset, that day -- which in the Baha'i calendar began at the moment of sunset on the previous day -- is Naw-Ruz. At present, however, Naw-Ruz is fixed as 21 March for Baha'is in all countries outside the Middle East, regardless of exactly when the equinox occurs. - From Baha'i Encyclopaedia Article by John Walbridge Rick Boatright 14:05, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spellings

Can we fix the spellings? I don't actually mind whether its Rahmah or Rahmat, but people persistently changing it etc... I don't mind what spelling it adopted just so we can fix a more permanent one -- Tomhab 09:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The spellings, since this is a page on the "Bahá'í calendar", should reflect the standardized Bahá'í usage. Although there is some variance in how different systems transliterate the original Arabic forms, the current Bahá'í system uses the “t” to transcribe the Arabic ﺓ ("tāʼ marbūṭa"), the final letter in most of the words whose spelling is under discussion. Though its shape is like that of the Arabic ﻩ ("hāʼ", i.e. h), it is actually a different orthographical shape for the ﺕ ("tāʼ", i.e. t), as indicated by the diacritc double-dot. There is little use in someone who wants to read about the Bahá'í calendar outside the Wikipedia going and running a search for "Rahmah", as all authoritative sources use the standardized Bahá'í system of transliteration. Googling "Bahá'í calendar Rahmah" returns only 16 hits, most of which are simply mirrors of the Wikipedia article, whereas the same search for "Bahá'í calendar Rahmat" yields 634 returns. There is a clear utility in maintaining a consistent spelling schema that is in line with the Bahá'í standard. I'll go ahead and change the spellings to their norms. Anyone wanting to alter them again, please discuss it here first.

Keldan 28 June 2005 15:14 (UTC)

[edit] Specific references and quotations

Could someone who knows please list some specific references which cover this material in more detail? — FJ | hello 20:42, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Bahá'í solar calendar system

Does the Badi` name refer specifically to the 360-day solar calendar? This should be clarified. In fact I would prefer to list all three systems right up front, since clearly they are all important. Are these three the only Bahá'í calendar systems? — FJ | hello 20:55, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

I only know of these three calendars for Baha'is. Another may be used by Bayanis (or Azalis). Apart from that , I think its unlikely there are any others (because who else would make one? unless someone had a draft version), but I don't know for sure.

First off, all three calendars listed below are Badi' calendars, but the last two are the ones followed by Baha'is (known as the two Baha'i calendars). As you will see they're almost identical:

1. The original Badi calendar first started by the Bab

I don't know much about this and I think thats true for most Baha'is. I've never seen anything specifically written about it. I believe it was based around the lunar calendar that islam uses.

2. Confirmed by Baha'u'llah, but revamped somehow (and is definitely fixed to the solar calendar)

Best resource for this is the Kitab-i-Aqdas.

3. Calendar fixed to the gregorian calendar

Not sure when this happened. It's almost identical to the Aqdas's version except it fixes new year to 21st March rather than the Vernal equinox (20th, 21st, or 22nd of March - most commonly the 21st though).

From re-reading the Aqdas it appears the original calendar was a little vague about where the intercalary days were so Baha'u'llah offered a solution.

Anyway, I feel its not appropriate to put up calendar 2 as basically, every day you see on the article is +/- 1 day -- Tomhab 22:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, I've tried to clarify it a bit in the text... knowing my luck I've only made it worse... -- Tomhab 23:06, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Just done a bit more research and it happens that the calendar might have actually been named after Badí', a famous martyr. That would have been only a year before Baha'u'llah made the calendar, so not relevant for the Bab's calendar. Not sure enough about it yet though -- Tomhab 23:42, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Month days

Is it true that Bahá'ís place some significance on the day of the month that has the same number as the month in the year, e.g. 4 Azamat (20 May), the fourth day of the fourth month? --Gareth Hughes 5 July 2005 17:04 (UTC)

Well I never have (and I presume this is the same for all modern Baha'is). Early Baha'is and Babis were rather mystical so they may have in the past, but couldn't say. -- Tomhab 5 July 2005 18:03 (UTC)

I have also never heard of such a significance being put on the day of the month that has the same number as the day of the year. -- Jeff3000 July 6, 2005 01:07 (UTC)

Probably a archaic tradition from the early days of the faith. Zazaban 22:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert re. spellings

I just reverted the page to align it again with the established standard Bahá'í calendar spellings (months of the year, days of the week, holy days, etc.). Again, anyone wanting to change the spellings, please discuss it here first. Misinformation, intentional or not, gets us nowhere. Keldan 13:10, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic Script

Can someone ammend the tables to include the Arabic names in the Arabic script? I would do it but I'm afraid I would make a mistake because I've only taken ARB101, and I'm a little unfamiliar with the wiki text protocol for Arabic. I could figure that part out and do it if someone could point out to me a reference where the names are written in Arabic script. Thanks. LambaJan

I learned today that the Arabic lettering is backwards on the calendar. I'm don't know Arabic myself, but my Arabic friend showed me the letters on the calendar written left to right as English is, not right to left as Arabic is. As he reading the Arabic it wasn't coming out Nur, for example, but run. Maybe someone could fix that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.231.65.28 (talk • contribs) .

Well, I checked, but everything shows up correctly (Arabic runs right to left). All I can think is that you and/or your friend may be using browsers that don't support right-to-left text encoding. Keldan 17:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] B.B.E.?

I know that the Badí' equivalent of A.D. is B.E., but what's the equivalent of B.C.? I seem to remember encountering B.B.E. (Before the Bahá'í Era) before, but I'm not at all sure. WikiMarshall 18:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I have never seen the B.B.E. used in any Baha'i literature (and I have not seen anything else that would be equivalent to a BBE). Usually the Islamic (AH) or the Gregorian (AD) is used to represent dates beforehand. Since BE is usually just used for intra-Baha'i communication, and is usally always used in addition to the Gregorian date, I don't know if there is much use for the BBE equivalent. But, BBE is an interesting idea; please do post if you've seen it used anywhere. -- Jeff3000 22:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I've also never heard of any example that would be the equivalent of BC, BH, or BCE. Cuñado - Talk 23:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's a practice I'd like to not see develop. It implies that all time is measured, both forwards and backwards, from a given date. Personally, I don't see the world beginning and ending on 23-May-1844 — I see the world having changed. MARussellPESE 04:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

That would get supremely difficult once we run of calenders to use. Once we get past the egyptian calander we've run out of known calanders to move back to. Zazaban 19:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

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One interesting thing, quite difficult to understand, is that the badi calendar don't have a year 0 (zero). Christian calendars don't have it because the monks who worked with the first calendar didn't understand the concept. But the badi calendar is new, and the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh lived in a part of the world where the concept 0 (zero) was understand and explained much earlier than in Christian countries. Nevertheless 1843 is the year 1 B.E.E. and 1844 is the year 1 B.E. (I have seen the years B.E.E. used in Bahá'í papers about the Shaykhis). Alláh-u-Abhá. --Caspiax (talk) 01:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] about merge with Bahá'í Era

Perhaps - but it's more complicated then that - Calendar and Era (and Bahá'í Cycle) are all related and yet different. I think a master page covering all the topics could get complicated and reduce it's usablity in other pages.--Smkolins (talk) 12:54, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Bahá'í Systems of Time Keeping? Zazaban (talk) 22:10, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I suggest merge into Baha'i calendar. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 06:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I recommend keeping the current status of these articles. They are related, but different subjects. The article length would suffer as well. Parsa (talk) 22:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Bahá'í Era appears to have no information in it that isn't already in this article. The only significant link is from the disambiguation page BE. Baha'i cycle is now redirected to progressive revelation. Hence I suggest replacing with a redirect page. AndrewRT(Talk) 16:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict with previous Scripture

Given the huge importance of the rites associated with Muslim calendar, and the fact that the founders of the Baha'i Faith claim to be the promised ones of the Abrahamic Religions, the discrepancy between the long extant 12 month division of the Year (solar or lunar) and the innovation of the 19th century claimant is a rather glaring one:

The number of months with ALLAH is twelve months by ALLAH's ordinance since the day when HE created the heavens and the earth. Of these four are sacred. That is the Right Religion So wrong not yourselves therein! And fight the idolaters all together; and know that ALLAH is with those who fear HIM. 9:35

(The above is being deleted by another editor of this topic. The link on the top right hand clearly claims "ISLAMIC" in its association. Why are you preventing this clearly relevant citation to be removed from this page? Truth can stand to the light of FACTS ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.157.243.210 (talk) 20:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

This article is not about the Islamic calendar, but the Baha'i calendar, and has no relevance here. Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 20:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The Islamic calendar was abrogated in the Baha'i faith in favor of the Badi calendar, just as the Christian calendar was abrogated in Islam in favor of the Islamic calendar. It's no more contradiction than the dawn of a new day contradicts the existence of the day preceding it, it's a different day altogether. Peter Deer (talk) 20:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

To put the same point in another way, the introduction of a 19-month year marks an important break with Islam, particularly considering the quote from the Quran provided above (thanks for that btw). I suggest this is relevant to this article and could be included - perhaps along the lines of the way it's included in the article Ayyam-i-Ha:

The introduction of intercalation marked an important break from Islam, as under the Islamic calendar the practice of intercalation had been specifically prohibited in the Qur'an.^[1]

AndrewRT(Talk) 23:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

Since this is a unique calender there should be links to few websites that sells it. such as badipublishing.com or www.badicalendar.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.154.212.139 (talk) 19:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)