Talk:Bagel
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[edit] Article quality concerns
This entry is in desprate need of attention(i love bagels :]) by an actual baker or a culinary expert of some kind. There is no mention of local 338 and I haven't found any any recipe source which calls for over night proofing for either sourdough or industrial yeast bagels. Calling natural leavened (sourdough) bagels "nontraditional" is just plain false when they were produced long before the advent of industrial yeast. There are no citations given for any of the supposed historical or culturial facts. I'll come back through and add the wiki templates and / or make the required changes when I have some more time - unless there are reasons for these flaws. Capttwinky 10:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
As a serious student of home bagel baking, I am fleshing out the preparation section. There are two common ways of making bagels. The traditional bagel is boiled after being refrigerated overnight, then baked. This process generally results in a bagel with a chewy, shiny crust. In recent times, a new bagel variant has emerged, in which the boiling process is skipped, but the bagel is baked in an oven equipped with a steam injection system, resulting in a bagel with a crispy crust, less shininess, and less chewy texture. --Krunchky 01:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Boiling water questions
It was my impression that a standard New York bagel was steamed with plain water, and not boiled in honeyed water — or maybe boiled in plain water? That was the explanation I had for the heavy vs. light crust. Need a New Yorker to swing by a canonical bagelry :) — mendel ☎ 01:57, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
I have worked in 4 "New York" styly bagel stores (Although I do not live in NY, and they all boil their bagels in plain water. Also, in the "Refrigerator Storage" Section, it may be helpful to note that it is important to keep as much air out of the plastic bag as possible when refrigerating or freezing in order to prevent moisture in the bag, which leads to mold. BlackBartBagelMan
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The gluten changeScratch that. I can find something to contradict any difference I find. :-( I'm going to try to get an opinion out of St. Viateur and Fairmont in Montreal as to how they differ; that's going to be pretty biased, though, so I still want someone in New York to do the same thing though. — mendel ☎ 02:59, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] German language material
If someone working on this is good with German, there is a request at WP:TIE to translate the material from the German language article. A quick scan says there is only a little bit there that cannot be found here, but what is there is a bit abstruse, so it will need someone with good German. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:38, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
This template is obsolete. Click here to initiate a translation request as explained in Wikipedia:Translation
[edit] Bagel Abominations
There are many bagel abominations in the United States. These are round rolls with holes in the middle that are not boiled before baking. (Like the Noah's chain does, or most "Supermarket" bagels.) These should be outlawed. swirsky See Section Below re: Noah's --Jmanyeah 31 January 2006
I concur. Montreal Bagels forever! 65.94.93.76
- "'Do you want a cinnamon-raisin bagel?' That's not a bagel, that's a doughnut made of bread!" - Lea DeLaria
- Fascism lives. Dappled Sage 22:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Correction to the above claim re: Noah's
Swirsky, I found the assertion that Noah's doesn't boil their bagels a little dubious mainly because their bagels are pretty kickin. By far they are the best chain source of NY style bagels in the San Francisco Bay Area (IMO). So I emailed em. I received a response from Peggy Kling (PKling@nwrgi.com) of Noah's Customer Service Dept. Here is the relevant part about their bagel making process:
"Our bagels are boiled in the manufacturing process. They are then shipped in a frozen state to the stores where they are baked fresh for your enjoyment!"
I don't think she has reason to lie. Aside from the frozen part, it's a damn fine Bagel. Just didn't want any misconceptions floating around out there.
--Jmanyeah 31 January 2006
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- Noah's bagels are not boiled. They are bread-rings, not bagels. The most traditional (and in my opinion the best) bagels in the San Francisco Bay Area come from House of Bagels at Geary and 15th Avenue in San Francisco. Also, if you want *real* NY style pizza, try this little dump of a pizzeria run by a handful of stoned skaters called "Arinell's" on 16th Street at Valencia in San Francisco. :) Chrismon 17:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] You can get real bagels in the bay area
at Izzy's (which are Kosher) or House of Bagels (which aren't under supervision)
- Alex Bennett used to complain about this on his show all the time. “You can’t get a good bagel in the Bay!” (or “California,” or however he said it), and people would call up to recommend someplace he’d already been, and he would tell them, basically, that they didn’t know what the fuck they were talking about. Often, people who recommended bagel places had never had a New York bagel. Supposedly it’s the water that makes them unique—you can google this if you want, but IIRC, I once ran across a page that asserted that some New York bagel guy moved to Florida, had his entire store, all the exact same equipment shipped down there so it’d be exactly the same, and the bagels still didn’t taste quite right. Whatever, I eat doughnuts —Donadicto 876. 20:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] donuts
Recently added to the article, "Bagels should not be confused with doughnuts (donuts)." Nor with pneumatic tires. Is this really necessary? Has anyone ever made the mistake this is intended to address? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:09, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. Even to someone who's never seen a bagel, the description of the cooking process (boiled then baked, rather than deep fried) should clear up any possible confusion. — Flourdustedhazzn 18:00 EST, December 29, 2005.
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- I would have agreed, and first laughed when I saw that, but I have since been asked (while eating a bagel), wether or not it is a donut. So I now disagree, they do look kind of similar I guess, people outside certain countries are often unfamilar with it. I don't think it hurts to keep it Epson291 04:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] German word "bugel" and link to Gugelhupf
At least in standard German there is no word "bugel" and therefore it also does not mean "round loaf of bread". There is, however, the word Bügel which refers to a bent piece of wood or metal and which is part of the words Steigbügel (stirrup) or Kleiderbügel (coat-hanger). As for the link to Gugelhupf: Although a Gugelhupf is topologically a torus, it has a quite different shape than a bagel. It also is unclear if the word Gugelhupf decomposes into "Gugel-hupf" or into "Guge-lupf" (where the h is only due to an erroneous etymology) and how either "Gugel" or "Guge" could be related to "bagel". It should also be noted that there are croissant-shaped pastries by the name Nussbeugel (nut beugel, where "beugel" is pronounced "boygl").129.101.86.246 19:10, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Obwarzanek
Is an obwarzanek really the same thing as a bagel? In particular, is it boiled before it is baked? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:08, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Origin
"...a Polish origin, Jewish baker from Vienna named Baigel...": this has the ring of an urban legend. Is it cited from somewhere? If not, I believe we should get rid of it. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:49, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
- Does it ever! Well, except that at least urban legends show up in a Google search. I was just about to revert it, and I'll go do so now. — mendel ☎ 15:11, August 13, 2005 (UTC)
Yum, I love bagels :)
[edit] Brick Lane
In Brick Lane (London) the Beigal Bake 24-hour Beigal (not Bagel) shop has been in business for over a century. I think that the Bagel/Beigal divide depends on whether your local Jews are Litvak or Poylish. They (the beigals) are boiled in plain sight, probably also in plain water, then rinsed off with a spray, batched up on to baking trays and put in the oven. And as for keeping them fresh, the definitive characteristic of the Beigal is that, if it's cold then it's stale.
The shop itself used to have at least two spellings on its outside signage (beigel, biegal, beigel) but has now settled on Beigal. And ever since I remember (long enough) the pronunciation has been Bye-gal, not Bay-gal.
[edit] Popularization?
"The bagel came into more general use throughout North America in the last quarter of the 20th century." It would be interested to know more about how this happened. And not just "bagels became popular because they were good to eat". Who first marketed bagels to people who had been unfamiliar with them? Did they first spread to the smaller Jewish communities existing in the average U.S. city? And does "Bagel Bites" have anything to do with it... I seem remember people in some areas buying up Bagel Bites to feed to their kids, for years before any bagel shops cropped up in the same area.
[edit] Translation request from de:Bagel
- Corresponding English-language article: bagel
- Worth doing because: more information
- Originally Requested by:--Sheynhertz-Unbayg 19:28, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Status: Completed (23/03/2006) — QuantumEleven | (talk)
- Other notes: The English article seems to be the more informative. The German article doesn't seem to have much to add. --Mmounties 21:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
- The German article does discuss the how bagels could be made on the Sabbath, which isn't in the English article. Angr/talk 20:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry. My mistake. --Mmounties 03:15, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Supported:
[edit] RJ?
"A sweet variant of the bagel known as the “fragel” is found in Michigan; bagel dough is fried and coated with some RJ."
What, pray tell, is RJ?
[edit] pronunciation?
The pronunication of 'bagel' is highly contentious between communities and is often a reflection of inter-communal rivalries. In Canada, for instance, the Torontonian tendency to mispronounce the first syllable as 'bag,' like a shopping bag, is taken as an afront by bagel aficionados in Montreal and has had consequences ranging from broken homes to street brawls.
OK, this is hilarious, but I’m changing it. Wiki Wikardo 20:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I thinks east coasters pronounce bagel like shopping bag because theuy can not speak proper English.
I am a New Yorker and have ingested hundreds of thousands of real NY water bagels (mmmm tasty)...anywho, back to dialect, in the mid-atlantic region of the US many people refer to bagels as "beg-els" emphasizing the beg portion... weirdos. Eleigh33 19:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
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- Leaving aside the -charming- comment above about how "theuy" cannot speak English, I live in Halifax and have never heard anyone pronounce bagel like 'bag.' Jarring bit of original research? 142.177.44.232 05:11, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Guys it doesn't matter how you pronounce it. Dappled Sage 03:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
- But if someone pronounces 'bag' like the first part of 'bagel' I'll murder them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk • contribs) 14:28, 18 January 2008
[edit] Cream cheese
This article only covers sweet bagels and savory bagels and savory bagel fillings, but no sweet bagel fillings. Where I come from, the only thing you'd ever put on a bagel is strawberry or blueberry cream cheese, period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk • contribs) 14:28, 18 January 2008
[edit] The most dangerous bread?
According to a British documentary, bagels are said to be the most dangerous form of bread. What makes this so is that numerous got injured trying to slice bagels. To slice them they say one must do while they're placed flat on a surface. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.9.126.41 (talk) 13:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
Those people might be retarded. Dappled Sage 20:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Popular in Poland and Lithuania?
If you want to know how much our Polish friends know about the Bagel, read pl:Bajgiel which centers around their popular king Sobieski. Lithuanian wiki presently has no article linked at all. Thus I removed the POV from the intro. -- Matthead discuß! O 18:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] How to Pronounce "Bagel"?
There's a lot of ambiguity about how to pronounce "bagel". Is it BAG-ul, or "BEG-ul"? (as in "grocery BAG" or "to BEG for food"?) Thoughts? Personally, I think it's the latter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.160.174.65 (talk) 21:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
