Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miska the Wolf-Spider

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The minority of "keep" opinions generally fails to address the issue of the apparent lack of real-world coverage for this fictional character. Sandstein 06:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miska the Wolf-Spider

Miska the Wolf-Spider (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

I fell that this particular wolf-spider is not sufficiently notable for inclusion in the Wikipedia. I also believe that Wikipedia is being used as a game guide and we need to remember that this is not an indiscriminate collection of information. There is no real world context established in this article. Pilotbob 02:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete nn (only in-universe gaming refs.). JJL 03:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• delete per WP:NN, non-notable in-universe character that does not have enough outside references to establish notability. --Hdt83 ^Chat 03:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep I'd suggest that rather than randomly putting articles up for deletion, you might first suggest improvements to be made to flesh the article out, which can be done given an expanding publication history in the past year or so regarding Miska. Or perhaps take some time of your own to do the necessary research for such improvements.Shemeska 04:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related deletions. --Gavin Collins 15:07, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete No improvement can be made when there are no reliable sources to demonstrate notability. Ghits show that this fictional creature is unknown outside of the a gaming adventure from which it is derived. --Gavin Collins 17:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Miska has a history dating back to the Rod of Seven Parts from the 1979 Dungeon Master's Guide. If the article is kept, it needs to be edited to reflect this. BOZ 17:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• I fail to see how this establishes real world notability or a real world context Pilotbob 17:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per BOZ.--Robbstrd 00:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, no references to reliable, third-party, real-world sources to demonstrate the significance of this fictional creature beyond the reaches of the D&D fan base. Garrett^Talk 09:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Merge and Redirect to Demon lord (Dungeons & Dragons) -- it already has a list that could be expanded with a limited amount of the detail from this article. Pinball22 16:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Utterly fictive and non-notable. Same goes for all D&D Deities: they simply do not reach outside of D&D hobbying to affect the rest of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BreathingMeat (talk • contribs) 19:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

  Comment: Strictly speaking, Zeus, Odin, and Jehovah don't "reach outside" of their literature to "affect the rest of the world," either. Would you advocate deleting those articles as well?--Robbstrd 23:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, that's wrong. :-) Odin, as just one example, has been written about in many works written by people who didn't worship him or work for his church. In fact, he's been a subject of all sorts of third-party works, including famous ones, many of which have used "poetic license" to expand upon the character in-universe, or have analyzed him externally from the standpoint of comparative religion, and so on. On the other hand, there don't seem to be any third-party scholarly works that delve into the character of Miska the Wolf-Spider - and, well, I dunno if we'd find any, since the character is owned by a corporation. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 23:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

• So you think Odin's real? Does he "reach out" to you?--Robbstrd 19:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

• delete per real-world and secondary sources arguments above, or alternately merge just the most vital information to Demon lord (Dungeons & Dragons) per Pinball22. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 22:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep/merge Adequate notability and sourcing. The D&D hobby is part of the real world and Wikipedia supports such specialised interests per its Five Pillars. Colonel Warden 12:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

D&D certainly is part of the real world; its coverage in many 3rd-party sources proves so. Miska the Wolf-Spider, unfortunately, is an in-game character, and the article is analogous to a plot summary. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 14:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.