Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marvin Kwitko

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was nomination withdrawn, notability established per provided sources, unanimous keep of the improved article. trialsanderrors 07:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marvin Kwitko

Article on a supposedly eminent Canadia eye surgeon. Apart from the poor orthography I have a hard time verifying the claims in the article. The claim that he's in the Queen's Privy Council for Canada is not verified by the member list. His supposed textbook is not listed at amazon.com and listed as "no sales rank" at amazon.ca (and doesn't strike me as a textbook). Knighted by the Queen? Unverified. Order of Canada? unverified. Marvin Kwitko Foundation? Zero Google hits. Google Scholar, Google books? Scraps. JSTOR, ScienceDirect? Zero. Newsbank? Four or five articles. Google hits? 132 (68 unique). ~ trialsanderrors 08:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm currently writing this article and take it very seriously. Marvin Kwitko was a great leader in my feild of study; ophthalmology. I have recently read his book "eyes" in my classes, which is a leading book on eye surgeries. Following this, I had the opportunity of meeting his daughter and found out a lot about his exploits. He was married to a steinberg for a period of time, the family that owned a pretty big chain of supermarkets. He was also the first ophthalmologist to bring lazer eye surgery to canada. He was knighted by the queen herself for his advancements in medical science. He's very well-known in montreal for his work.

Although his page is not completed yet, it simply needs a little more time.

How can I buy more time to complete the article and prove its relevancy to wikipedia as a whole, but mostly within the ophthalmology sector? --Beuh pudding 08:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I recommend that you find Authorative and reliable sources for all the claims you make in the article and post them for other editors to confirm. This deletion debate last at least five days, that should give you enough time. ~ trialsanderrors 08:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so i corrected all the grammar, wrote the full biography and filled out all his accomplishments and books. I'm working on the references to prove what i wrote, and they should be up by tomorrow. Look it over again now, and go right ahead and google everything in there cause not a word of it is made up or fictitious. Thank you. --Beuh pudding 08:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I know that a lot of the its just some moron writing about his pet fish, but this is a serious article about a man who did great things and helped a lot of people. The books he wrote helped a lot of people learn how to treat eyes and surgeries he did saved a lot of peoples eye sight. I hope that you all take this article seriously, and once the references are up, you'll see that none of it is untrue. Thanks again. Alex Dankoff --Beuh pudding 09:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Also the first 5 minutes the page was up I just wrote a bunch of stuff real quick that was admittedly untrue. I just wanted to see what the page editor looked like. These are the things that are quoted in the first statement above. About 20 minutes later I posted my actual biography that is all 100% true and verifiable. thanks.

I'll happily withdraw my nomination if the current claims are verified using proper sources. ~ trialsanderrors 09:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep I'm keen to see references for the long string of letters after his name, but I did check out the book "Eyes" on Google, and the a couple of the scholarships, and they are true. Mr Pudding, of you are having difficulty inserting references you might give Wikicite a go. See my user page for more info. --Dave 09:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The Eyes book seems to be geared towards "young people", not medical students, but some of the other claims might be verifiable. I'm trying to add some sources. ~ trialsanderrors 09:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so It's referenced that he was knighted in the order of st johns. I've referenced most of his books now (I found all the other ones, im just a little tired of writing the references for tonight). Two of his scholarships are referenced. I noticed above that you pointed out how the book "eyes"is for young people. I dont really see the relevance of that since the rest of his books are all medical books. The long stream of letters is as follows: Medical Doctor, ?, Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, Fellow of the International College of Surgeons, Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons, and Knight of the order of ST Johns. The second one I got off of here [1]. I'd really like to thank you guys for helping me find references. I think at this point its pretty clear that Dr Marvin isnt invented or anything. Thanks again, Alex Dankoff. --Beuh pudding 11:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

So what exactly does it take to keep it from being deleted? Now that it was nominated, is it almost certain it won't make into wikipedia? If I had posted it with all the citations and references right from the start, and it had never been elected for deletion, would it have stayed permanent? I dont know if im all that clear on the process. If you guys have any info I'd really apreciate it. Thanks, Alexander Dankoff --Beuh pudding 11:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I think there are sufficient supporting references now to ensure the article will be kept. Dr Kwitko was clearly a remarkable man. 5 days after nomination this WP:AfD will be closed by an administrator. The consensus of discussion will be used to determine the fate of the article. By then trialsanderrors will no doubt have followed protocol and wrapped his original delete recommendation between <s> and </s> markers (as in "Delete Speedy keep") to ensure everyone knows he has changed his mind. --Dave 12:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and clean-up. I think the claim that Kwitko "pioneered in cataract surgery and laser eye surgery" might be a bit of a stretch. Per my essay, the claim that he was the first in a particular region (i.e. Canada) to use IOLs or perform RK is not impressive to me. However, according to PubMed, I feel Kwitko has a sufficient number of publications to meet the guidelines at WP:PROF. -AED 16:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Evidently a senior professor with publications in international refreed journals, apart from his books and numberous awards, including one from India. Definitely notable. Needs cleanup though - like this line is somewhat hard to digest "Kwitko has also written well over 100 scientific articles, making him one of the world’s most prolific medical writers." World's most prolific doesn't suit here, since many more people from medicine have written much more. Try and keep the language realistic, please. All the best EyeMD 18:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the help so far. I understand what you mean by cleaning up, and I see now that some of it is overstating him a bit. I'll be sure to change some of it around. A lot of it was originally written by his daughter and mother, who were likely to be biased in saying how "amazing" he was. I really don't want this article to be biased though, and am completely willing to change it. I really appreciate all of the help all of you have given me thus far. I think his page will be a great addition to wikipedia, specifically in the ophthalmology field. Thanks again so much. Alexander Dankoff. --Beuh pudding 19:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm with EyeMD on this one. I'd wrap it up now since notability has been established (actually the verified K.St.J would probably be enough), but the article still reads like part obituary, part fluff piece. WP:NPOV is also a key provision for Wikipedia. But this article has come a long way since last night. Kudos. ~ trialsanderrors 19:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fully Cited and Referenced

All the statements in the article are now referenced and cited to peer reviewed journals. The fact that he was an important canadian ophthalmologist is cited, as well as the facts that he was the first in canada to do his repsective procedures. Every single one of the books he wrote is referenced to their buy websites on amazon. Its referenced to the Knights of the Order of St Johns that he was knighted. Two of his scholarships are referenced to their websites, the second reference may not be perfect but makes reference to someone winning his scholarship that year which is proof that it does indeed exist. I beleive the first one may be discontinued which is why I cant find it anymore, but it did exist. If it really needs a reference to be there I'll remove it. I think its obvious at this point that he was very influencial in his feild and that he helped a lot of people. I hope at this point the articles deletion nomination will be removed and it can stick. I really wanna thank everyone who helped me write this page and I think it really turned out perfectly. --Beuh pudding 05:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.