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I removed the text mentioning that Anund died during an attack against Finland. This information is not found in any historical source I know of regarding Anunds's reign (and I think I know them all). Nor do I recognise the theory from any litterature I have read about the subject (Swedish and English books). A similar addition was removed earlier because it was obviously wrong, confusing the Swedish king Anund Jacob with his nephew prince Anund Emundsson who died during an viking raid to the Land of the Women. That land have by some been identified with a Finnish speaking area in northern Sweden and Finland, while others have more convincingly identified it with Georgia in the Caucasus.
To put it short, the teory appears to be a loony-theory, and even if it have a reference to a Finnish book published in 1997, it should not be added again without an explanation on what historical sources the theory is based on. If it is what I suspect, wild speculation without general support from the scientific community, it should not be included at all.--84.217.122.84 (talk) 21:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
The point was added in the first place because it is very common knowledge in Finland (as one could expect). The book from which the info was taken is written by a person of academic backround, so the source is of course trustworthy, as according to the Wikipedia standards. And there are at least half a dozen other books mentioning it, in Finnish. Indeed, the idea that it would have been some other Anund makes me wonder as I'm well informed on available sources, texts and books on this matter. By the way, who says Women's land is in Georgia? (Totally unheard-before theory, and not just to me personally.) So, it's not a loony theory or wild speculation unsupported by scientific community. I'm not sure from what corner of planet Earth you two hail from, but I can tell in Finland it's not something to normally debate of or question but indeed something that has been printed on history books for an century, if not more. There seems to be very little this kind of knowledge at all outside Finnish academic circles (it seems not even in Swedish academic circles, which is odd considering the subject at hand) and for 99,99% time these facts or stories are not published in English language books. Not because they lack credibility but because English-speaking academia is not interested or more probably has never even been aware of the whole matter. So, this is not the only article in English-language Wikipedia to suffer from this kind of selective use of sources (ie. if it's not mentioned in English language sources nobody adds it to Wikipedia and even if somebody does, it's automatically considered rubbish by other not-so-well-informed editors even when the source is valid and academically approved). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.248.138.208 (talk) 21:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- As I wrote in this page before, I have read litterature in Swedish and English and the statement that Anund Jakob died in Finland is completely unknown in the books I have read, and they are many since this time period is a special interest of mine. Even if the English-speaking world is ignorant of this subject, you can not say that Swedish academic circles are less interested in the history of a Swedish king then Finnish historians. As I wrote before I think I know (as well as having read them) all existing historical sources (not 20th century litterature) about Anund Jakob's reign. These are Adam of Bremen, Snorri Sturluson, the appendix to the Hervarar saga, the appendix to Västgötalagen, Saxo Grammaticus, and Yngvars saga víðförla. I have also read Agrip, Theodoricus monachus and Fagrskinna which also covers this time period, but I do not remember if they actually mentioned Anund Jakob (which I would if they had said he died during a Finnish crusade). The leading Swedish encyklopedia on historical persons, Svenskt biografiskt lexikon also do not mention Anund Jakob's death or a crusade to Finland.
- There is however a tale mentioned in Adam of Bremen about a son to Emund the Old named Anund who died in the Land of the Women. This land was by one Swedish historian in the 18th century identified with the land where Ingvar the Far-Travelled and most of his men died 1041 according to Yngvars saga víðförla. This historian also noted that Anund Jakob was mentioned early in this story and that Adam of Bremen probably got the names confused (In both stories, the expedition-leader had a father named Emund). Anund Jakob was however never on the expedition to the Land of the Women. Another Swedish historian from the same century thought that Adam of Bremen's "Land of the Women" was a bad translation of "Kvänland" (i.e. Adam had misstaken it to be "kvinnolandet"). This would mean that the "Land of the Women" was located in northern Sweden and Finland, and this was long accepted as the most likely interpretation (even though scholars could point to inconsistencies in Adam of Bremen's text if this was true). The first historian's view would never become commonly known since he died young. But in the late 1980:s, the Swedish Archaeologist Mats G. Larson began to study Yngvars saga víðförla and to compare it with other less known sources (such as Georgian chronicles). He could conclusively state that Ingvar the Far-Travelled's journey went to Georgia and that the similarities with the story told in Adam of Bremen are so great that they had to be the same story.
- With this said, there are now two "theories" that can be found in Swedish academic litterature. 1) An old view saying that Emund the Old's son Anund died in Kvänland and that he was not the same person as Ingvar the Far-Travelled who died far east in Särkland (according to contemporary Runestones). 2) A new theory (or an old view reborn) saying that Emund the Old had no son named Anund who died in Kvänland, and that the story about this son is in fact a less accurate description of Ingvar the Far-Travelled's illfated journey to Georgia. Apparently some Finnish historian have made a weird mix of these theories and, just like Adam of Bremen probably did, identified Ingvar the Far-Travelled with an Anund (this time Anund Jakob), but kept the location of the Land of the Women in Scandinavia (this time to southern Finland!!!). This is obviuosly pseudo-history where you pick the pieces you like from the available theories to create completely new ones without bothering to check the historical sources for (non-existing) proofs.--84.217.155.74 (talk) 14:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
