Talk:Ambergris
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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) Should this be considered a chemical compound at all? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC). |
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[edit]
$9 for how much ambergris? That's not made clear in the article _____
All right, I've thrown in a little more modern info on ambergris uses and Ambrox. Somebody who knows something about it might want to speak a little more concretely on how ambergris is developed in the whale; whale physiology is really the only non-historical aspect from which ambergris is still of interest.
Also, I'm not aware of whether collected ambergris is still valuable/marketable. It stands to reason that it could still be used, but Ambrox may be considered of a higher quality, or may require less processing for use.
If somebody else doesn't, maybe I'll get around to writing a sclareol page at least, if not an Ambrox page. Natural products in general could stand a lot of fleshing out around here. -TimeLord mbw 00:51, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[edit] I find this silly...
I have watched and contributed to this article and one line in it always bothered me(to madness) namely: "...however, with the decline of whaling, the primary source of natural ambergris, replacement compounds have been synthesized."
To me there is a big problem with this statement: it does not get the facts right. Note that ALTHOUGH the precursor of ambergris comes from a whale, the commercially valuable black/grey ambergris IS NOT and CANNOT be directly obtained form the whale (Read the 3rd paragraph).
Thus it cannot be that the decline of whaling forced the use of synthetic ambergris substitutes. Any (fecal smelling) ambergris precursor that was directy removed after killing the whale will have little or no commercial value. If we follow in this line of arguement, the decline of whaling should actually INCREASE the amount of ambergris avaliable, since more live whale will be "hurling" these stinky fatty chunks that will eventually turn to expensive ambergris. My guess on why synthetic alternatives were sought is that the supply of quality ambergris was low and it is difficult to get a consistant and reliable harvest of ambergris. Combined with the high demand for the stuff and the prohibitive price tag, someone will seek (a have sough out) a cheaper and more reliable source.
If nobody objects, I am going to remove this line in a few days and stick something more true in its place.
[edit] $20 per gram??
According to the ABC news article linked, ambergris is said to be worth $US20 per *gram*, as opposed to the $2 to $9 per *ounce* quoted in this article. That's a factor of up to 100 or so more. Any ideas as to which is more likely to be accurate? I see somebody earlier today updated the German article to include this Australian price (as 17 Euro per gram). 130.220.79.98 11:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- I poked around Google a bit. USD$20/g seems to be closer to the correct price. I am correcting the article accordingly. --AStanhope 15:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fasting whales
I moved this from the main article. Until AndyF can give citations on fasting whales and the location of ambergris discoveries:
- As with any animal body, whenever an indigestible object enters it, the body secretes mucus to dull the sharp edges and protect itself from the dispersion of toxins. This mucal protection gets impacted on to the gut wall and will not be removed from the body until a fast is undertaken. Since most ambergris is found on the coasts of warm waters, it could be theorised that the sperm whale consciously fasts in these waters, eventually eliminating all the detritus of mucus and indigestible squid bits which, after the processes mentioned, becomes ambergris.
Sjschen 10:36, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] In literature, cinema and music
What's the point of this section? Why do we need an exhaustive listing of all media that mention ambergris? Sjschen 19:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Because wikipedia is the go-to site when you want to know if something was once referenced in popular tv shows. Imagine if hundreds of years from now, nobody remembers that ambergris was once in an episode of futurama! 66.75.246.149 18:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Illegal to buy/sell in USA....Is this certain?
I checked the references used for the claim that buying and selling ambergris is prohibited by the Endangered Species Act, and there are two problems. First, the reference at the end of the sentence containing that claim (1) points to the NY Times article, which only mentions legal problems with selling ambergris in Australia. Second, the BBC newspaper article (2), although not cited for that sentence, does say "Banned in US under endangered species legislation" in the Quick Facts box.
However, conversations with several lawyers and businessmen (who actually do sell ambergris in California) have informed me that this legislation only prohibits the purchase/sale of whale parts, and not secretions. Could somebody maybe find something more substantial that confirms or disconfirms the legality of ambergris trade in the USA? -- Prosebuster 00:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I have decided to look it up myself. I read the relevant section of the Marine Mammal Protection Act (which predates the Endangered Species Act), and indeed, commercial use of ambergris is prohibited under section 216.13. So at least, even if those businesses are trafficking in ambergris, it is in fact prohibited by this legislation. -- Prosebuster 01:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
The newspaper articles are still rather inadequate sources of a claim about the legality of this, so I edited the sentence to also include that importation is illegal, and cited the MMPA directly. -- Prosebuster 01:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Information on ambergris(Selling and Buying)
If you need more information on ambergris or looking for international buyers of this product, you can go visit this ambergris website. This product is not illegal or prohibited because you can only find it and not get it directly from the spermwhale. Donlorenzo06
[1]www.ambergris.fr —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Donlorenzo06 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
What are these things that I hack up, little balls, my dad always said they were Ambergris, are they or are they not?
[edit] Introduction Lacking
The introduction says "Now largely replaced by synthetics" before it mentions that it is derived from whales. It doesn't actually make any sense, until you read on, to see the Source section. Some basic mention that it is derived from whales should be made early on in the introduction, as this seems to be an important property of the material.
[edit] Literature, Cinema and Music taken out?
Why was the above section taken out? Isnt' this important. I remember a rather large mention in the movie Hannibal where the hand cream smelling of this was traced to Hannibal Lecter.
Squiggle 16:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mustard Gas
A lot of people get poisoned because mustard gas thats dumped in the sea, say 40 years ago forms a tar like substance like this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.160.17 (talk) 23:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] historical and cross cultural uses?
I find the reference to "middle easterners" to be vague and far to general to describe the people who actually use this product. Can we narrow it down to a nationality or ethnicity at least? "North America" is pretty well recognized as the US, Canada, and Mexico? Can someone give me a definite definition of "Middle East?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neo1973 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
