Talk:Žirmūnai

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	Žirmūnai has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
Article milestones Date Process Result December 14, 2006 Good article nominee Listed December 15, 2006 Peer review Reviewed March 26, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted September 21, 2007 Good article reassessment Kept Current Status: Good article

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Archives: /Archive 1

Contents 1 Questions 11/29/06 2 Crime 3 Another 4 Excellent article 5 GA On Hold 6 Other districts 7 Question re Soviet Urban Planning 8 GA Passed 9 Brutalism or Constructivism? 10 Ideas for peer review 11 British vs US usage 12 Reference format 13 Rural elderates? 14 Anything missing? 15 FAC 16 GA Pass

[edit] Questions 11/29/06

Maybe we should divide the early history section in 3 parts, Zvejai, Tuskelenai, and Siaures miesteles? It's getting kind of long.

I just thought about the same today ;) Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The Tuskulenai entry "... in order to service Vilnius Castles...". Service them in what way?

maybe to provide them with resources - food, timber maybe something else. Maybe supply would be better? Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Alexander Rimsky-Korsakov - was he closely related to the musician? If not I think we shouldn't link to that article.

Should not link Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The White Little Manor - the description seems a little strange in the original reference. Why is it listed under Tuskenelu apŽvalga if it had no connection to it? Maybe wanting to distance themselves from Tuskenai's history? At any rate I think the part of the sentence that goes "no connection to Tuskelenai" should go.

This 'manor' is so little that not worth much mention at all :D Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

"in January 1991, the victims of the January Events could be accessed for a farewell at the Palace." This sounds a little strange to my American ear. Access usually implies use of some sort. If someone could provide a reference for this, I could maybe come up with something else.

The mention of unintentional irony (in the recent street namings paragraph) seems a little out of place for Wikipedia. The ordinary reader would need a lot of background in regional history to see any irony. It would look to this hypothetical reader like "Hey, these were Lithuanian military heroes; why not name streets after them?"

I agree Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Novickas 17:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC) PS much nicer info box picture

glad you liked the pictures. a longer article deserved more images and here they are.Iulius 19:08, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll remove the "irony" part, because most likely it was just a coincidence that Šiaurės Miestelis continues with that military "flavor". White Little Manor should stay, because 19th century buildings are very scarce in Žirmūnai. The bit about the "farewell" in the Sports Palace is due to my inability to translate the Lithuanian word "pašarvoti", i.e. to "display" a casket with the deceased so that the relatives etc might come up to stand in silence etc (the ref is http://whatson.delfi.lt/archive/article.php?id=10036631 , mentioned in the article).Juozas Rimas 20:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I read the reference but like you, having trouble phrasing it. Some idea will come. In the meantime, maybe we should just put it up for review, before the curve of diminishing returns begins to flatten. Clearly this process is asymptotic. But you, Juozas, should have the last word. BTW, apropos of changing "white little palace" to "little white palace", my sis, friends, and I have had a number of great discussions about the order of multiple adjectives in English - what IS the rule? Some say it goes from more general to more specific - little applies to more things than white does? No, everything material has a color; but little can apply to abstract things as well, so maybe the rule does apply here. What about didzulis, baisus vabalas? Does it follow the same rule? Such entertainment. Hope the edits were OK; the idea was to put them into a more chronological order. Novickas 15:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The multiple adjectives must a be "language feeling" thing. As a side note, why do we write Žirmūnai Bridge but Žirmūnų Street? Does it "feel" okay in English? Juozas Rimas 21:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it should be Žirmūnai street. Novickas 21:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I do not like removal of occupation part, Juozas, but for stability let it be for now. M.K. 22:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Probably it is time to press for GA, any objections? M.K. 17:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC) I think it's time. Novickas 17:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crime

Standard crime statistics, or at least the easiest ones to find, are expressed as crimes per 1,000 persons per year. So I'm thinking we should take out the December 2005 crime rate (not the number of crimes) so as not to compare apples and oranges. Novickas 16:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another

Maybe contributors who improved this article, would like to do the same with Vilnius? It is a bit shame that so nice city has a not fully developed article. So I just wondering maybe you all try to work on it too. A? M.K. 09:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yea, creation and improvement of Žirmūmai proved to be an example of a matter of principle and a rare instance of successful and sought after Lithuanian collaboration on English wiki Iulius 10:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

This idea sounds great to me. But somewhat daunting. The PL-LT wars almost made us lose Renata. (We might have gotten lucky with this article in the sense that it has not been derailed by controversy). The collaboration has been great, wish we could get together and celebrate, galbut kada nors (maybe sometime). In the meantime...let's encourage each other. Novickas 15:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Awesome! I thought it is not really possible: really obscure topic, no sources, just bits of details there and there... Great job! Sorry I could not chip in... Yes, on to Vilnius! Renata 00:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

So Vilnius is next? Juozas are you with us? M.K. 18:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

My activity regarding the Žirmūnai article is partly related to the fact that I have lived in the neighborhood since I was born. But this means I also lived in Vilnius all the time, so why not enhance the Vilnius article? :) However, Vilnius is such a HUGE topic... Juozas Rimas 12:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Much the same applies to me as well... Iulius 21:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

So when we go to Vilnius? M.K. 22:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Am looking at Boston, Massachusetts, since it was a featured article, for ideas. A lot of the Vilnius talk page could be archived; M.K.? Novickas 13:07, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not understand the last part of your remark - Vilnius talk is archived already. Nevertheless all talk about Vilnius should go to its talk. M.K. 19:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Excellent article

This is an excellent, comprehensive, well-written, informative and fascinating article. Well done to all involved!

[edit] GA On Hold

This article is on hold for the following reasons:

1. Section headings should not repeat the title as according to WP:MSH.
2. Please convert all bulleted lists into prose as according to Wikipedia:Embedded list.
3. Per WP:MOS, avoid using words/phrases that indicate time periods relative to the current day. For example, recently might be terms that should be replaced with specific dates/times.
4. If possible extend the first or add a fourth paragraph to bring the article to WP:LEAD.

When these objections are addressed feel free to contact me. Tarret 20:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, lets fix them. M.K. 23:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)P.S. Renata, why you stopped all sections needs prose style :)

Yes, I need some sleep :) Renata 12:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

C'mon - its daytime.. Iulius 12:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Which time zone? :) Renata 06:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Made some adjustments, needs copy edit, badly needs! M.K. 13:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC) P.S.I am not sure about first or add a fourth paragraph

Thanks Novickas for copy edit. Renata you meaningly left bullets in Other educational institutions in Žirmūnai include? M.K. 16:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

No, not intentionally. I just finished it. So objection #1 - done, #2 - done, #3 - needs to be double checked, but I believe done, #4 - can someone write more in the lead? Renata 06:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other districts

This article is excellent. I know that those involved now want to move on to tidying up and improving the Vilnius article. After you've done that, perhaps you could consider editing the articles for the other districts/suburbs of Vilnius? It would be great if they were as detailed and well-written as this one.

And then after that perhaps other cities and towns of Lithuania.....?

It would be fantastic to make Wikipedia a detailed English-language source of info on Lithuania. Perhaps it could help promote the country and bring in more tourists?

Originally from the UK, I lived and worked in Vilnius for two years. I'm back in London now, but I'd be happy to help in any way I can.

--Terryc 09:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Everyone's edits and especially copyedits are very welcome in Lithuania-related pages. Nice to see you around. Iulius 09:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question re Soviet Urban Planning

In re The Ideal Communist City. This book is frequently cited but with different publication dates - some say "almost 40 years ago", some say "in the 1970s", one says "in the 1950s". Does anyone know enough Russian to find the actual Russian publication date? Novickas 20:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Added. It seems, though, that Žirmūnai were built earlier than the book was first published. But it's likely that the concept was "in the air" in Moscow University and Lithuanian architects were exposed to it directly. Juozas Rimas 21:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Passed

Congratulations on this articles promotion. The following is a bot-generated suggestion to bring the article to FA-class.

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Per Wikipedia:What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 20 kilometre, use 20 kilometre, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 20 kilometre.
• Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Guide to layout.
• Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.
• This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, than an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.
• Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: honour (B) (American: honor), neighbour (B) (American: neighbor), meter (A) (British: metre), metre (B) (American: meter), organize (A) (British: organise), ization (A) (British: isation), program (A) (British: programme), programme (B) (American: program ).
• Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
  • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Tarret 21:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations for all of us who left a part of our hearts in this article, Juozas Rimas, Novickas, MK etc. Iulius 23:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I say don't stop: I don't think that the article is too far from becoming the first FA on Lithuania :) Renata 01:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Hurray! Novickas 13:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brutalism or Constructivism?

What about the architectural style of the will-some-day-be-destroyed Sports Palace. So far more sources claim in favour of Brutalism than Constructivism. Iulius 13:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

How about "the Palace of Concerts and Sports, described in architectural literature as a notable example of either Constructivism or Brutalism ". Allows the reader to decide. Novickas 13:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I need stronger ground support for Constructivism, as there are almost no sources to confirm it, compared to Brutalism, which is in fact quite evident if you look at it :) Besides, I find your suggestion a little too lenghty for this article. Iulius 15:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd say neither :) Constructivism was 30-40 years before and brutalism is not quite like that. But I am not an expert in any way. Renata 15:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sending an email to my brother, who is an architect (see http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1999/criticism/works/day10/page1.html) although his opinion in an email wouldn't be source-able. It does seem more Brutalist. Also it seems to deserve its own article... Novickas 16:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Forgot to mention, the bro's opinion was that it didn't fit well into any category. Novickas 12:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

thanks for support. However, there are tens of buildings in Vilnius more deserving articles of their own.Iulius 16:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Can't argue with that. Just that it's referred to so often in this article. Novickas 18:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a matter of reference. There is one reference that it is constructivist, please add one or more for Brutalist (preferably online ref). What about the so-misleading "Vilnius Palace of Culture, Entertainment and Sports" - is it "functionalist" (one reference only too) or Brutalist? Don't forget Tėvynė cinema too: it is "Soviet historicism" in the reference and I couldn't find such style in Wikipedia. Juozas Rimas 20:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that this style should be somewhere under Stalinist architecture, colleagues lawyers ;) Iulius 21:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ideas for peer review

Proposed some ideas in the peer review article, may be some one would be willing to discuss the actions? Iulius 16:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I am hoping that some outsider and uninvolved person (with fresh eyes) would comment on it. Like, does everything make sense? (it was written mostly by people who know the elderate inside-out) Is anything material missing? How's the prose? Etc. Minors stuff like brackets can be fixed quite easily. Renata 17:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

it is easy to fix but the agreement should come at first in order to keep from reverting back forth like neris river - river neris etc. Iulius 18:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British vs US usage

User 213.52.162.226, per recent edits, thinks we should follow British usages in this article (e.g. River Neris vs. Neris River). The W. guidelines indicate that it should consistently go all one way or the other, any thoughts? Novickas 18:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I stand for english usage that means if we agree one of us could make it consistent in the article metres, centres, etc. Iulius 18:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Reference format

I just spent several hour converting references into proper format using {{cite web}}. Could someone with better knowledge of Polish and Russian covert refs #15, 16, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29? Thanks! Renata 09:14, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rural elderates?

Has anyone ever found information online on the population of Lithuania's rural elderates? We are hesitating whether Žirmūnai's the most populous of all the elderates or just city elderates. The rural elderates might be larger but 47K people (could be 60K now easily) in Žirmūnai are a lot for Lithuania in absolute terms as well. Juozas Rimas 09:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anything missing?

Do we need any more references in this article? Iulius 09:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

We need, especially for crime section - first and third paragraphs. M.K. 10:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC

Presumably the reviewer wants the history in the lead paragraphs shortened? Does anyone know of some FAC city neighborhood articles that we could look at? Novickas 12:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

As I understood the History section do not summarize the rest article history part. M.K. 12:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I see. What is the little template for editing in progress on a section? Novickas 12:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

{{inuse}} M.K. 12:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you expand history summary a bit, as it is too small, in my view. M.K. 09:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Agree. Is there a hard and fast deadline on this FAC? Don't have much time just now...Novickas 23:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Around two weeks. One is almost gone. M.K. 08:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Later today. Novickas 13:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting: a robot was sent to de-list it after six days. Citizendium. Novickas 22:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It was among the FACs removed by User:Raul654. Gimmetrow 02:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you clarify how long FAC are running? At least for week? M.K. 08:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

They run until Raul removes them. Standard is five-six days, but if there is a lot of discussion and the result isn't clear, they may stay two or three weeks. The oldest current FAC has been active over a month. When you resubmit this, be a bit more insistent on people striking objections when they are resolved. Gimmetrow 13:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, you see I thought that there is some time and I did not rush to make adjustment to all listed questions at one time, but instead step by step. And we solved one contributors User:Nichalp remarks and started to making other improvements, but it was interrupted by unexpected FAC closure...M.K. 16:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

A fac is likely to be closed if there are no supports after 5 days. What I would suggest is to go over the objections, fix what you can, and resubmit to FAC in a week or whenever the issues are fixed. Gimmetrow 17:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for comprehensive explanations. M.K. 17:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 11:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)