Talk:Phill Kline

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[edit] Church memorandum controversy and NPOV

To say something is "in defiance of XXX law" is making a legal judgment. Wikipedia is not a place for judging. The previous version is NOT weasel words, but rather was preventing a NPOV problem. This has now all been fixed. 134.193.243.92 15:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

A recent edit stated "that tax-exempt churches are prevented from endorsing a candidate is law, not opinion." While it is true that the Treasury regulations accompanying Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c) includes a provision that a tax-exempt religious body that engages in the endorsement of a political candidate has the potential of losing its tax-exempt status, if the Commissioner of Internal Revenue takes such an action, a statement that Attorney General Kline's memorandum "defies IRS regulations," however, is entirely a legal judgment and a matter of opinion - it constitutes one argument, clearly one to which the Attorney General does not subscribe. He maintains that the churches are not officially supporting his candidacy, but rather grass-roots campaign efforts use connections through the churches - read, NOT any official endorsements by the churches themselves - to help his campaign out. If so, this probably would not violate the Treasury regulations accompanying I.R.C. Section 501(c). Ordinarily, the only way for a church to violate I.R.C. Section 501(c) is for the church's governing board and/or clergyman officially to come out and actually endorse the candidate - and then only if the Commissioner of Internal Revenue decides to take such an action (which is quite rare). Thus, a statement that Mr. Kline's memorandum and strategy are "in defiance of IRS Regulations" is one argument, but it clearly is not NPOV and thus is not fit for Wikipedia. It is far more accurate to state that opponents argue that the memorandum's strategy violates the IRS regulations, not that they actually DO. I have changed this to more accurately reflect Wikipedia policy regarding a neutral point of view. 65.28.2.218 04:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Um, you've got NPOV exactly backwards. That 501(c)3 tax-exempt churches are prevented from endorsing political candidate is not in dispute; it is verifiable settled law. The article needs to state as much and avoid merely repeating Kline's (alleged, unsourced) opinion that his actions detailed in the memo do not violate that law. We can discuss here how to do that, but we will not be simply presenting Kline's opinion as if it were fact. He's running a political campaign, and care must be taken here to not fall into the trap of making his case for him. FeloniousMonk 05:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I made a compromise copyedit. I think we can all agree this. FeloniousMonk 05:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I quite understand NPOV. Saying something "violates a law" is POV. I am well aware of the Treasury regulations which accompany I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) on this topic: a religious organization which itself endorses a candidate risks denial of § 501(c)(3) status if the Commissioner of Internal Revenue determines as such. The question here is whether the Attorney General's memorandum constitutes churches themselves endorsing a candidate. That, clearly, is in dispute. Therefore, to blindly declare that the memorandum itself "defies IRS regulations" is POV. That cannot be appropriate on Wikipedia. 65.28.2.218 06:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Um, where exactly does "Kline has defended the memo and the mobilization of churches it calls for, insisting it does not violate IRS regulations governing the tax-exempt status of churches, which are prohibited from supporting political candidates" blindly declare that the memorandum itself "defies IRS regulations"? Please read the compromise content next time instead of blindly reverting. FeloniousMonk 15:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Clearly, you do not understand Internal Revenue Code § 501(c)(3). The language has been changed to more accurately reflect the Treasury regulations surrounding the section. This version should suffice for a truly neutral point of view. 134.193.243.215 18:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)