Talk:Vicca
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This article was nominated for deletion on July 19, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep. |
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[edit] Discussion
While the article is not badly written (apart from some stylistic choices and a statement at the end that violated WP:NPOV, which I took care of per earlier edits), it needs serious work in the areas that really count. We have no citations or sources for any material on this page, and if we can't get some together, we should send it to AfD. Remember, after the John Siegenthaler episode, we have to be very careful to adhere to guidelines on living persons to avoid exposing the Foundation or ourselves to lawsuits. We also need to get into compliance with WP:V and WP:SOURCES, as well as WP:NOR. We can't have unsourced and uncited material in Wikipedia. A number of editors have made good contributions to the article, and had to have gotten their information from somewhere; let's dig up those sources so we can put together a great bio of this person! Captainktainer 09:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
- Well, my attempts to have a discussion on sourcing have fallen fairly flat. The first section is now sourced, very weakly, but the entire second section is unsourced. Furthermore, the same user who inserted the NPOV and irrelevant information at the end of the article in the first place has restored it, without responding to calls for discussion from myself and at least one other editor. We really need to talk this out and find out what's going on.Captainktainer 19:09, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comment moved from content page
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- 12:45 PM, 4/22/06 UPDATE:
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All right now, you do not seem to be operating in good faith. You fail to respond to my points and instead surreptitiously remove my references to the sourcing of this article, namely the Internet Movie DataBase. As you know, that is not a whimsically moderated source. I know because the data about me in the IMDB is accurate.
I see from your personal page here that you seem to have issues with porn stars and former porn stars. My suggestion is that you do not attempt to use the guise of pseudo-objectivity to enforce more rigorous standards with regard to them than exist elsewhere in Wikipedia. Your reference to the John Seigenthaler episode is wholly out of proportion. And quite ironic, given that he and I are in the same field.
I suggest that you answer my questions rather than play games with this article.
"Elihu"
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NOTE TO THE WIKIPEDIAN WHO KEEPS POSTING MESSAGES ON THE TALK PAGE ABOUT SOURCING. THIS IS IMDB SOURCED. IF YOU WANT FURTHER DISCUSSION, WHICH APPEARS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY LOOKING AT THE REST OF WIKIPEDIA, EXPLAIN HOW I CONTACT YOU. I NOTE IN YOUR PROFILE THAT YOU HAVE INTERESTING IDEAS ABOUT PORN STARS.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Elihu1951 (talk • contribs) 15:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Look, I don't know what your deal is here, but this is drawn from the IMDB. Check it for yourself before placing big inaccurate messages on entries.
I found your earlier crack that "she's not an 'adult film star,' she's a pornographic actress" to reflect a biased state of mind and an inaccurate view. Since you are so interested in the porn industry, you are well aware that she was a major contract star. Many people do refer to porn films as adult films. But you seem to want to drag down to a lower level, under the guise of objectivity.
Now, as to this "sourcing" business. What are you suggesting? Footnotes? I don't see that kind of thing elsewhere on wiki. As you know, the principal pieces of information on this entry are all in the Internet Movie Database (like me), where things are moderated before being published.
I am a professional journalist. I can read Wikipedia. I don't know where you get the idea that entries about glamour models and adult film stars have to have so much higher standards.
Also, you just wrecked the layout of the page with your latest moderator move. It looks terrible now, totally out of proportion.
Now, why don't you explain to me how I can contact you before this turns into more of a farce than it has already become?
Or at least provide some semblance of explanation of how to effectively communicate through this amazing mess of a talk page.
PS: Thanks for calling the entry fairly well written. I actually win awards for my writing. But this is the Internet ...
- Going by the edit history of both the article and this talk page, the above comment was moved here by User:Kwekubo. Similar to your talk page, Kwekubo's talk page can be reached by going to User talk:Kwekubo. And finally, please sign your contributions to talk pages with four tildes like so: ~~~~. Dismas|(talk) 15:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
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- I've reverted the changes you made so that there isn't "SOURCING: INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE" all over the article. The preferred way to source text has been provided to you on your talk page by another user through links to the appropriate Wikipedia pages. Please read over those links. You don't see "SOURCING: INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE" in any other articles so why have it here? Dismas|(talk) 20:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
- First, I believe he might be referring to me judging from his comments. However, I'm not the only one interested in seeing the page properly sourced, as seen on User talk:Elihu1951. Secondly, the IMDB source Elihu gave comprises of a height measurement and six one-liners that make up the trivia section. Not exactly something I would consider a source, and it doesn't answer where the rest of the information came from either. In addition, any journalist worth their salt would go directly to the source, and not solely rely on a secondary (or tertiary) source such as IMDB. Believe me, I've been around plenty of journalists well before I even began contributing to Wikipedia. Thirdly, IMDB isn't the perfect source for information either -- nor should it be used as a primary source. And, fourthly, there are articles which are very well cited (see the article on porn star Brandy Alexander for instance). -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. Think out loud 20:58, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Elihu1951, explain why you have removed statement about Vicca's current workplace from carrier section? BlackAsker 00:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] AfD
I have placed this article up for deletion on the Articles for Deletion page. The page has been around for a year; the request for citations has been up for months. During that time the best citation that can be found is IMDB, which is not an acceptable source. According to Wikipedia policy, particularly at WP:V and WP:RS, all information in Wikipedia articles must be verified. If it is your belief that the article is adequately sourced, please say so on the article's AfD page (reachable using the link in the AfD box at the top of the Vicca article) and provide a convincing argument for why that is so; please note that comments on this talk page will not be automatically entered into the AfD discussion. Captainktainer * Talk 12:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "porn star" edit war
NOT AGAIN with the pornographic business.
The girl was a porn star by any reasonable measure. What is with the "pornographic actress" business? "Porn star" is obviously within "wikipedia" guidelines. I think the dudes who keep downgrading the girl should ask themselves why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.164.84.22 (talk • contribs) 21:56, 2006 August 27
- <Sigh!> Why don't you folks either:
- (a) take this up with Wikipedia:WikiProject Porn stars for arbitration, or
- (b) change the title to Vicca (porn star) – like Haven (porn star), Houston (porn star), Boomer (porn star), and the beau coup others who turn up when you do a search on "porn star" – and set up a redirect for the few dozen pages that link here?
- I have no opinion one way or the other, but I'm getting sick of these frelling edit wars over such trivial WP:POV ("actress" vs "star") because the wasted resources (including this attempt by me to arbitrate a compromise) could be dedicated to improving the quality of other articles.
- BTW, search the page for "porn star" and you find it in the last paragraph and two category names ... IMHO, that weighs in Big Time for not using pornographic actress, even though that's where the redirect will lead. --Dennette
