Talk:Sabrage

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[edit] Neck weak points

The article makes claims about two weak points at the neck. These are reasonably well supported by standard rigid body physics. The claim that the weakest point is only 1/3 as strong as the rest has no evidence at all and needs a citation. How do you know it's not say 95% as strong, or only 5% as strong? —Dgies^t c 23:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Does a stone have 50% chance of falling up? A moderately rounded corner typically has a stress concentration of 2, and it is reasonable to assume that the welt further weakens the glass by 20%, the original article thus made the valid claim of an approximate strenght reduction of 70%. Engineering is afterall the art of reasonable approximations. To avoid any discussion I changed the text to significantly less than 50%. Frank van Mierlo 00:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but to extend the analogy, what you had before was like "Gravity pulls stones down, therefore stones move downwards about 99.9% of the time". You had <undisputed qualitative fact> → <quantitative conclusion> —Dgies^t c 01:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The original text said: "approximately one third of its original strength". It appears we have reached a happy compromise. Best wishes for 2007 and do keep up the editing!! Frank van Mierlo 01:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lip vs. collar?

I believe the specific part of the bottle struck by the saber would be the collar, rather than the lip in general. See http://www.blm.gov/historic_bottles/morphology.htm and http://www.blm.gov/historic_bottles/finishes.htm . The entire "finish" of the bottle is removed during sabrage. I will leave edits to someone more familiar with Champagne bottles in particular... --Dfred 00:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

A good point I agree that "lip" leaves something to be desired. Given your suggestion I replaced lip with collar twice in the first paragraph. Have a read tell me if you like it better. I do not know what word would better be used to describe the thicking of the glass around the cork however. Suggestions are welcomeFrank van Mierlo 02:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC) The "lip" is called the Analus by the French and the indent on the bottom of the bottle where you place your thumb to hold the bottle is called the "Punt". a visit to www.confreriedusabredor.co.uk wll allow you to view a full step by step guide to sabrage.

I think that is anulus or annulus in English; this is the term that is used by those sabreurs who practice Sabrage, such as the Chevaliers de Sabrage at your link.

See also the humorous instructional video at :- http://www.champagnersaebel.de/english/index.html

and also the British 'upper crust' enjoying themselves at a Sabrage event in the UK; this was organized by the same society as your link:- http://www.confreriedusabredor.co.uk/events/video/summer-party-2004-256k.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.52.5.11 (talk) 19:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Safety

Two points on safety: firstly, is there any information on whether glass splinters may remain on the rim or otherwise contaminate the drink, or does this method not carry great risk of glass fragments? Secondly, if glass particles are likely to remain the page should probably include a safety warning of some kind. Leushenko 19:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I've done this (once) and don't remember any small fragments of glass being involved. Certainly I had the severed top for some time as a souvenir, and the bottom of it looked like a clean break. The only "safety" point to make is the advisability of gripping the bottle in a beer towel (or possibly something more cultured!) if it's wet, to avoid having the sword pull it out of one's hand and onto the floor. Seen it done... PeteVerdon 19:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I've done this many times - there are sometimes small bits of glass at the point of breakage, but they are invariably blown outward with the champagne and the cork. Raoul Tiger (talk) 18:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I can concur with this having done it many times; the released pressure as the whole top (the annulus still with the cork firmly in it) is blown clear means that any glass splinters are also blown clear.