User talk:Markus Kuhn

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Hi! Welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for your contributions to TEMPEST and Markus Kuhn, amongst others — it's good to have some authoritative edits ;-) — Matt Crypto 17:28, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Iso#International Organization for Standardization 2 ISO 5775 3 Student food 4 Aircraft specifications survey 5 American Wire Gauge 6 2005 South Asia earthquake 7 Amount of substance 8 Page name for temperature articles 9 Tron 10 Electrical wiring (UK) 11 ISO 8601 time designator 12 FE-Schrift 13 Image:EN-13402-example-hiviz.jpg 14 Image:EURion.png listed for deletion 15 Image:Title-case-Times-of-India.jpg 16 1st order, using a hyphen 17 Image:ECG Paper v2.svg 18 Image:Karen Spärck Jones.jpg 19 Binary Prefix Image Deletion 20 MOS and capitalisation 21 advertisement link (spam?); 22 Hard spaces discussion; also, greetings! 23 Hard spaces again 24 GL 25 WikiProject Germany Invitation 26 Hi 27 pH

[edit] Iso#International Organization for Standardization

Regarding your edit to Iso#International Organization for Standardization, please note that that is a disambiguation page (i.e.: people going there want to be told the differences between the usages of iso and easily be able to get to the usage they are interested in).

The info you have added in that edit appears to be actually be about the International Organization for Standardization as opposed the three-letter word and its disambiguation, and you seem to have removed information useful for disambiguation.

Please discuss on Talk:Iso. I will leave it as is for now because I've made further edits to the page since yours and there may be areason for your edit.

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 14:45, 2005 Mar 26 (UTC)

Markus:  Please see my request regarding default date and time format. You might be interested, and might know how to get this change implemented. I'm amazed they thought anything besides this should be default for an international information system. It obviously should be the default for the default logged-in skin, logged-out skin, and four-tilde string. A person shouldn't have to log in just to see dates displayed in standard format. But, at any rate, logging in won't fix the arbitrary, mixed-up date/time formats in talk page signatures. Very illogical. It needs to be switched to the international standard. --Simian, 2005-09-08, 05:29 Z

[edit] ISO 5775

Hello!

The text of the article ISO 5775 is a verbatim copy of the article on your personal homepage. Because it describes an international standard, I am not sure whether it should be flagged as a copyvio. Seeing as I have the rare opportunity to speak directly to the copyright owner, I want to ask you what should be done about it. — JIP | Talk 09:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

What is the problem with me donating this text to Wikipedia? I'm confused and have no clue what you worry about here. Markus Kuhn 09:42, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Aww, crap, sorry about that. I did not realise it was you who wrote the Wikipedia article. I must have made a mistake checking the edit history. Forget about it. — JIP | Talk 10:22, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Student food

The Student food article is very well written, but it appears that the subject is a variant of Gorp (trail mix). I think that the entire text of Student Food could be added to the Gorp article, then a redirect made. -- 71.106.123.17

Thanks for pointing this out. I've added cross references between both. I think, I prefer that over merging the two articles, as I believe the original aim of the two mixes is slightly different (high omega-3 fatty acid versus high energy content). Markus Kuhn 13:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aircraft specifications survey

You may be interested in the Aircraft specifications survey. Bobblewik 22:33, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] American Wire Gauge

Discussion moved to Talk:American_wire_gauge#Approximate_stranded_metric_equivalents

[edit] 2005 South Asia earthquake

Thank you for your contribution at 2005 South Asia earthquake. Please keep it up!!! Pradeepsomani (talk)

[edit] Amount of substance

You might be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amount of substance. Gene Nygaard 20:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page name for temperature articles

To avoid flip-flopping between 'degree Fahrenheit' and 'Fahrenheit' or 'degree Celsius' and 'Celsius', I propose that we have a discussion on which we want. I see you have contributed on units of measurement, please express your opinion at Talk:Units of measurement. Thanks. bobblewik 23:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tron

Hallo Markus Kuhn, du hast wahrscheinlich vor einigen Wochen die Kontroverse und den Gerichtsprozess (den afaik ersten der Wikipedia) um die Nennung des bürgerlichen Namens von Tron in den entsprechenden Wikipedia-Artikeln mitbekommen. Nach dem Urteil des Berliner Amtsgerichts, das die Auffassung von Wikimedia Deutschland bestätigt hat, und einigen sich anschließenden Diskussionen ist in der Sache vorerst Ruhe eingekehrt. Der Anwalt der Eltern hat jedoch angekündigt, in Berufung gehen zu wollen, und wir haben dieses Wochenende einen Workshop der deutschen Wikipedia, bei dem unter anderem dieser Fall (und allgemein die Frage, an welchen ethischen Prinzipien sich Wikipedia in solchen Angelegenheiten orientieren sollte) breit diskutiert werden wird.

Weshalb ich mich an dich wende: Tron hat offenbar damals mehrere Mails an tv-crypt geschrieben, die er mit seinem vollen Namen und weiteren persönlichen Angaben unterzeichnet hat (am 24. Februar 1995, 17. Juni 1996, 24. Juni 1996 und 20. Mai 1997; Burks hat diese Mails auf seiner Website veröffentlicht, mit unkenntlich gemachtem Nachnamen.) Was mich in diesem Zusammenhang interessieren würde:

• Wie viele Abonnenten hatte die Mailingliste in diesem Zeitraum ungefähr?
• Gab es damals auf dieser Liste auch Poster, die nur unter Pseudonym auftraten, oder war es vielleicht im Gegenteil (entsprechend den Usenet-Gepflogenheiten) verpönt, den bürgerlichen Namen zu verschweigen?

Eine Antwort auf diese Fragen und vielleicht darüber hinaus eine persönliche Einschätzung der Frage, wie wichtig Tron selbst damals die Geheimhaltung seines Klarnamens war - von dir als jemandem, der einerseits Tron persönlich und fachlich kannte, andererseits vielleicht ein wenig mehr Distanz hat als beispielsweise die Betreiber von "Tronland" - wäre ein wertvoller Beitrag zu der ganzen Diskussion (vergleiche auch die Behauptungen über Trons Intentionen hier und hier). Ich könnte es aber auch voll und ganz verstehen, wenn du dich aus dieser leidigen Angelegenheit komplett heraushalten möchtest :-/

Grüße, High on a tree 10:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC) (=de:Benutzer:Hoch auf einem Baum)

Die TV-Crypt mailing list (gegründet 1994-04-11 von Luca Bertagnolio und mir) war eine geschlossene invitation-only mailing liste, auf der es üblich war dass neue Mitglieder sich mit vollem Namen und kurzer Biographie vorstellen. Der Grund dafür war (a) dass einige Teilnehmer bedenken hatten, dass Hersteller von pay-TV Systemen gegen sie vorgehen könnten, und (b) dass die Szene voller technisch weniger qualifizierter Leuten war, die versuchten aus allem was sie in die Finger bekamen sofort Geld zu machen. Was die genaue Zahl der TV-Crypt Mitglieder angeht müsste ich erst in mehr als 10 Jahren alten Mailarchiven (z.T. auf staubigen QIC Magnetbändern) nachforschen, aber es waren glaube ich nie mehr als 100 Leute. Boris war seit Februar 1995 auf der Liste und hat sich am 24. Februar 1995 mit vollem Namen vorgestellt. Er hat insgesamt nur eine sehr kleine Zahl von TV-Crypt Emails geschickt (vier klingt realistisch), die er aber jedes mal sowohl mit seinem vollen Namen als auch mit TRON unterzeichnet waren. Ich kann mich nicht daran erinnern, dass Boris jeh aus seinem Namen ein besonderes Geheimnis gemacht hätte. Er war kein besonderer Freund von Email (oder von schriftlicher Kommunikation generell) und hat es stets bevorzugt, mit Leuten telephonisch Kontakt aufzunehmen. Er hat mich im Zeitraum 1994–1996 mindestens 30–50× angerufen, und sich immer mit "Tachjen, hier ist Boris" gemeldet. Den Pseudonym TRON kannte ich eher als ein Logo das er auf seine Platinen geätzt hat. Wir haben oft stundenlang miteinander telephoniert und uns 2× getroffen, zur CeBIT 1995 in Hannover und zur IFA 1997 in Berlin. Die ganze Diskussion um den deutschen Wikipedia Eintrag über Boris habe ich natürlich mit großem Interesse und Erstaunen gelesen, aber angesichts der wallenden Emotionen die da aufkommen, halte ich mich da lieber etwas zurück. Markus Kuhn 13:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Electrical wiring (UK)

Perhaps I'm being stupid. I've always known the BRown/BLue mnemonic for wiring a plug - though it has been some time since I last had to do that. But I don't see how the harmonised colours for fixed wiring are relevant to this mnemonic. I suppose the holes for the plug pins are bottom-left/bottom-right but the main purpose for the mnemonic is surely to aid wiring. For the purposes of wiring, the MK double-socket I have in front of me has the L - E - N terminals in that order when viewed from the front/above with the socket just removed from the wall. All the terminals are at the same height. Other socket designs vary from this. I think it is worth mentioning the mnemonic, just not in this section. Cheers, Colin°^Talk 20:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISO 8601 time designator

Recently in the article on ISO 8601, there was a discussion about the form of the time designator. The standard prescribes a letter T between date and time, but allows to omit it. I have always interpreted this as to replace it by a space. However, elsewhere in the standard is written that a space in a representation is never allowed. This would lead to an allowed form of 2006-07-1107:25Z and forbid 2006-07-11 07:25Z. In your summary you use the form with space. Can you substantiate this decision? I would be very reluctant to use the form without space. −Woodstone 07:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

ISO 8601 allows you to store date and time in separate fields. I see nothing wrong with separating these fields with a space, but the exact choice of field separator is outside the scope of ISO 8601. Markus Kuhn 07:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The letter "T" seems Latin-centric. I have always used a space, almost as a form of civil disobedience.... – Kaihsu 19:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The ISO 8601:2000 version states "5.3.1.5 If the time of the day is represented in basic format in a context that does not clearly identify a time only expression, the time designator [T] shall be used immediately in front of the presentations defined in 5.3.1.1 through 5.3.1.3." and "5.4.1 Complete representation ... The character [T] shall be used as time designator to indicate the start of the representation of time of the day in date and time expressions. The hyphen [-] and the colon [:] shall be used, in accordance with 4.5, as separators within the date and time of the day expressions respectively, when required. NOTE By mutual agreement of the partners in information interchange, the character [T] may be omitted in applications where there is no risk of confusing a combined date and time of the day representation with others defined in this International Standard.". I'm not sure if this has changed in the ISO 8601:2004 (latest version, not made available for free). Nsaa 14:14, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FE-Schrift

Thank you for contributing this article! I have announced it at Portal:Germany/New article announcements and on Portal:Germany. Please announce your relevant new articles there. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 13:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:EN-13402-example-hiviz.jpg

I've just uploaded your picture Image:EN-13402-example-hiviz.jpg to Commons at commons:Image:EN-13402-example-hiviz.jpg so it can be used by other languages. Regards Nsaa 14:03, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:EURion.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:EURion.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. MECU≈talk 00:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Title-case-Times-of-India.jpg

Hi Markus Kuhn. You have used an invalid tag (PD-self) on Image:Title-case-Times-of-India.jpg. Since your photograph is a derivative work of a copyrighted item, you cannot release your photograph into the public domain, as the photograph is subject to the original copyright of the subject. Therefore, you must claim "fair use" of the image in each article that it is used in. You can read more about this at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use. If you do not add a fair use claim to the image description page within 7 days, the image will be deleted. You should also probably replace the existing image with a lower resolution one, since it is a fair use image. Thanks. ~MDD4696 20:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1st order, using a hyphen

I mean sth like this "the model is described by 1st order transfer function", and is there any diference between American and British English in this case? --84.234.42.68 21:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:ECG Paper v2.svg

I created the original Image:ECG_Paper.jpg using PowerPoint. Could you please credit me under the image summary? This was a time consuming graphic. Thanks, MoodyGroove 14:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)MoodyGroove

[edit] Image:Karen Spärck Jones.jpg

Hello,

I am a little bit surprised by the licencing of this image, could you proved a source and a justification that University of Cambridge has released this image under Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Licence ?

Thank you very much in advance. Rama 15:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, for some silly reason I failed to read "Release of this photograph under CC 2.5 Attribution was granted on 4 April 2007 to the uploader by Tim Holt, Deputy Head of Communications, Office of Communications, University of Cambridge.". Rama 15:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Binary Prefix Image Deletion

You might want to weigh in on the deletion of images from the Binary Prefix page Tom94022 23:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MOS and capitalisation

That's a good solution. Tony (talk) 14:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] advertisement link (spam?);

Isn't that a little harsh? I've been down this road before, that of trying to negotiate what terms should or should not be used to describe an item, and I was just trying to keep it short and sweet. They way you had systematically removed every instance of the name by which I know all three of these items suggested to me that you are strongly motivated to assert the names you prefer. I thought it best to muster some supporting evidence for my edits.

Anyway, since when are commercial sites automatically bad references? In cases such as this one, they are likely to be the most reliable indicator of what a product is called: there is not much use in misdescribing an item for sale. They are also often the only sources available. I certainly have no vested interest in any if the sites I used. I just searched for the ones that looked most representative.

Finally, I somehow managed to describe my edits without disparaging yours. Could you try to do the same? -AndrewDressel (talk) 22:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hard spaces discussion; also, greetings!

Hi Markus, this is just a note to say thanks for your suggestion over at Noetica's page, and to point out that they're not accepting new suggestions over there until after the current vote, and to point you to my current response on my talk page. While I'm here, I notice we have a lot in common...in addition to our interest in MOS discussions, I am currently staffing the #wikia-de channel, and I adopted robots.wikia.com. So...freut mich, dich kennenzulernen :) — Dan Dank55 (talk) 20:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hard spaces again

Markus, your contribution at our little development page User:Noetica/ActionMOSVP was appreciated. I hope you'll come back and take another look, now. Your expert input and support would be extremely valuable.

See a full draft of the proposal

[Stable draft; last amended 11:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC). Development page: WT:NOWRAP.] Better markup for the hard space A proposal to implement ,, as markup for the hard space (&nbsp;) 1. Overview 2. Technical details 3. Objections and replies 4. Implementation 1. Overview The hard space is an important but neglected element in good Wikipedia editing. It stops an unwanted line break, so it is also called no-break space, or non-breaking space. An example (one sort from very many): no line break should occur in "17 sq ft". At present there are two ways to achieve this: first, with the raw HTML &nbsp; code (17&nbsp;sq&nbsp;ft); second, with the {{nowrap}} template ({{nowrap|17 sq ft}}). These options are hard to remember, hard to input, and hard to interpret on the screen. Some cases are far more complex. The solution? Introduce simple new Wikipedia markup, similar to the existing markup for italic (''italic text'') and bold ('''bold text'''). Although these are converted by the system into HTML code (<i>italic text</i> and <b>bold text</b> respectively), the text always appears in the edit box with the markup '' or '''. The proposal simply adapts this useful and accepted idea, to include the hard space. Extensive discussion among interested editors, followed by a poll, shows that ,, (two ordinary commas) is the best markup. When it is implemented, one could type 17,,sq,,ft in the edit box, which would be converted internally to 17&nbsp;sq&nbsp;ft, so that the reader of the article always sees an unbroken "17 sq ft". Editing, we would always still see 17,,sq,,ft. This innovation is easy for experienced editors and welcoming to Wikipedia newcomers, since it is the same style as markup for bold and italics. Analysis shows that comma-based markup could be extended for other formatting and punctuation; but that is beyond the present simple proposal. 2. Technical details The system's existing parsing of markup for italics ('') or bold (''') is a little complex. Those markups are "dual", requiring distinct interpretations as either beginnings (<i>, <b>) or ends (</i>, </b>). Those markups have to coexist with the use of ' as a single quote mark and as an apostrophe. Italics and bold are often applied together: sometimes overlapping, but more often nested like 'this' (markup: ''nested '''like 'this''''''). The WP community accepts the occasional ambiguity, and where the system fails to parse as an editor intends, there are workarounds available. The proposed markup for the hard space will be much more straightforward – for originating editors, subsequent editors, and the system itself. There are no beginnings and ends, just single applications. Still, some slight complexities will arise, and they are easily dealt with. We start with the simplest case: The case of ,, Exactly two adjacent commas will always be parsed as a hard space, yielding the HTML code &nbsp;. Inadvertent typing of ,, instead of , will cause no serious damage: its effect can easily be detected and repaired. The case of ,,, The markup ,, must coexist with the use of , as an ordinary comma in the text, though it will rarely be adjacent to such a comma. If this ever does happen, the natural parsing of ,,, would be as comma + &nbsp;. This could conceivably be needed in a complex subscript, like this: W1, 2, 3, ... , n (markup: W<sub>1,,,2,,,3,,,...,,,n</sub>). It is hard to think of a case in which the reverse would be needed (&nbsp; + comma); but if that ever did arise, <nowiki></nowiki>, &nbsp;, and {{nowrap}} would always be available, as they are now. The case of ,,,, (and higher even numbers of commas) Sometimes more than one hard space is called for: in fine-tuning spacing in tabular work, for example. (This is deprecated by some, but often a convenient solution.) The natural parsing of ,,,, would be as &nbsp; + &nbsp;. A similar interpretation would apply to any string of 2·n commas: it would be parsed as n instances of &nbsp;. And similarly for longer even-numbered strings of commas. If the editor intended comma + &nbsp; + comma, the existing alternative resources should be used. The case of ,,,,, (and higher odd numbers of commas) The sequence ,,,,, would be most unlikely to occur, and might arise more often as an error than as meaning anything specific. But the natural parsing would be comma + &nbsp; + &nbsp;. And similarly for longer odd-numbered strings of commas. If the editor intended &nbsp; + comma + &nbsp;, the existing alternative resources should be used. In short, there is a single rational parsing for any comma-based markup that could arise; and in the rare cases in which no comma-based markup will yield the desired non-breaking HTML code, alternative resources will meet the need as they do now. 3. Objections and replies Objection 1 Hard spaces? I never use them! Why should I care? Good editing requires hard spaces, even if many editors know nothing about them. Wikipedia's Manual of Style (MOS) explains some of their uses; and more uses would be added there, if only the markup were simple enough. Objection 2 The no-break space can already be input with &nbsp;. Recently this code has been attached to a button for insertion, under the edit box. Isn't that enough? There are three points to make. First, the code &nbsp; is hard to remember, hard to type, and hard to interpret on the screen, especially to those who are unfamiliar with HTML. One simple example: an en dash often needs a hard space before it. Consider "89 sq in – 3 sq ft". To keep this from breaking improperly you need to type, or later edit, this code: 89&nbsp;sq&nbsp;in&nbsp;– 3&nbsp;sq&nbsp;ft. Under the proposal, you would simply type this instead: 89,,sq,,in,,– 3,,sq,,ft. Second, note that the goal of wikitext is to abstract HTML codes away from the user, especially for common markup such as ''italics'' and '''bold'''. If the hard space is to be used as often as MOS advocates, it also needs this treatment. Third, the new insert button does not help with interpreting the code seen in the edit box. It helps with inserting: but you still have to find the button, then find your place in the text again. Do you really want to do all that three times, for the example just given? Objection 3 Why not use the Unicode character for the no-break space, attached to an insert button? There is still a problem with insert buttons as a solution. In contrast to &nbsp;, the Unicode non-breaking space is visually indistinguishable from the ordinary space. This is unacceptable, since the editor needs to be able to see the difference in the edit box. Objection 4 There is also a {{nowrap}} template. Why not use that? This template may be useful in some longer phrases that shouldn't be wrapped at any point; but again it is too visually intrusive to be used extensively for single no-break spaces. With the example above, the code would be {{nowrap|89 sq in –}} {{nowrap|3 sq ft}}. And many cases are more complex than that. Currently, {{nowrap}} does not behave well, since a space at the start or end of the enclosed text is rendered in HTML outside of that text, leading to unexpected breaks. There are other templates similar to {{nowrap}} that cater for specialised requirements; but all of these come up against technical inadequacies in the template system itself. And they all use the HTML <span> tag, which is interpreted differently by different browsers with unpredictable results. Use of &nbsp; instead is simpler, more intuitively understandable, and more reliable in its results on the reader's screen no matter which browser is used. That is what the proposal for ,, achieves. Objection 5 I use a non-standard editor with aliasing, so when I want a hard space I type /h to get &nbsp;. Easy! So what's the problem? There are two problems. The code you make is still hard to read and edit; and not everyone can do what you can do. Objection 6 I'm used to &nbsp;. That's what I'll always type! You could do that, of course. You'd still make markup text that's hard to read and hard to edit. Some people (very few!) type <i> and </i> in the edit box. But they'd make life easier for themselves and others if they just typed '' instead. Objection 7 The proposal is technically too hard to implement, and is not standard anywhere. It is in fact easier to implement than '', ''', and other non-standard markup used at Wikipedia (see Technical Details). Wikipedia is the leader in these matters. Our developers have the capacity to innovate, and others would almost certainly respect their precedent, and follow it. Objection 8 The new markup is unintuitive, and unlike anything we have already. In fact it is quite intuitive, at least for editors who are already used to '' and '''. Beginners have to learn that markup: the new markup simply uses , instead of ': similar but distinct characters, both with their own stand-alone uses as apostrophe (or single quote mark) and comma, and both also used in markup. Objection 9 Markup with commas is impractical, and a dead end in development. The comma markup has potential to be extended in all sorts of useful ways. Because a comma hardly ever occurs without a space or a digit after it, it is quite readily available for alternative use. We might in future consider markup like this: ,., (to force a break: equivalent to <br>; ,--, (for an en dash: equivalent to – or &ndash;); and so on. Such markup could be combined: ,,,--, (for an en dash with a hard space before it: equivalent to &nbsp;– or &nbsp;&ndash;). But any such extensions would be negotiable. Accepting the present proposal does not commit anyone to any such extensions. Objection 10 German and some other European languages use the character „ as an opening quote. Markup with ,, could easily be confused with that; and that markup might be needed in future for „ or for some other purpose. In fact there is little likelihood of the two being confused. Their appearances on the screen in common fonts are less similar than the appearances of '' and " are: and we all live with those quite happily. As for reserving ,, for some other purpose, the present proposal makes its own strong case. If others want to make their claim as well, well and good. But we see no evidence of any such claim; and the hard space is of such importance that it is unlikely to be trumped by anything more pressing. After all, those who use „ already have their own established ways of inputting it, just as we do for ". Objection 11 Other changes in the wiki-markup system would be more sweeping and more "wiki-like". Certainly the suggestion is unusual in that it proposes substitution of the single HMTL-entity &nbsp; for the single marker ,,. But the fact that this is easy to implement is not a principled objection, and certainly not a convincing technical objection. The logic of the subsitution is laid out in full above. As for the possibility of overall changes that would make this change redundant, this can be no serious objection either. We have been promised solutions to problems like the one we address here for a long time; but they are not forthcoming, and there seems to be no consultation about them beyond the technical development community within Wikipedia. The present problem has been identified by serious, active editors concerned with style and ease of use, and we find that the proposed solution does all that is needed. If a better solution eventually comes along, no harm has been done in the meantime. Objection 12 It's all too hard! How can editors bring about a change like this? It is hard work to bring about such a change. But the rewards for this simple innovation are significant. And Wikipedia is made up of editors with good ideas that they pursue energetically. That's really what it's all about! Developers and decision-makers will take seriously a proposal that grows out of the concerns of competent and committed editors. 4. Implementation After appropriate discussion at WT:NOWRAP, and possibly at MetaWiki, the coding and system changes for the new markup are a matter for developers. This proposal simply outlines the desired behaviour of the markup (see full specification in Technical details, above), and responds to predicted and actual objections so far. Once the new feature is in place, it would remain harmless and unnoticed by most editors, since they would rarely if ever input two adjacent commas. (This is a virtue of the proposed markup, in fact.) The community will therefore need to be informed of the change. This can be done at a variety of forums, including: Village pump (proposals); Village pump (technical); Village pump (policy); and other Village pump pages Manual of style; Manual of style (dates and numbers); and other MOS pages and talkpages Various community noticeboards Helpdesk; New contributors' help page; How to edit a page; Cheat sheet; and other articles outlining basic editing and markup The details can be determined once the new markup has been accepted for incorporation. In the meantime, nothing is lost through uncertainty and confusion, since the proposal adds a feature, but does not take anything away. In this respect it is safer than almost any alternative. For example, :: has meanings in mathematics (and : has meaning in current wiki markup); ;; may occur when HTML entities fall adjacent to a semicolon (and ; has meaning in wiki markup); `` has a meaning in some existing systems of wiki markup; etc. By notifications as outlined above, and through general community interactions, the new ,, feature should soon become a part of accepted practice, just as '' and ''' are already accepted and appreciated.

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 07:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GL

Could you check the SVG of the ring circuit diagram produced on the graphics lab after your request and comment on it or, if it is correct, close the request as done? Thanx, 68.39.174.238 (talk) 20:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Germany Invitation

Hello, Markus Kuhn! I'd like to call your attention to the WikiProject Germany and the German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board. I hope their links, sub-projects and discussions are interesting and even helpful to you. If not, I hope that new ones will be. Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany | watch Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board | watch

--Zeitgespenst (talk) 01:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Just dropped by to say hi and to make a somewhat unusual commend/request; I think you should consider adding back some of your personal interests (as appeared in your old home page). That "torturing innocent pianos" was brilliant. --157.228.x.x (talk) 08:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] pH

Hi Markus. You recently restored some text to the pH article, but I think you might have made some mistakes in doing so. Have a look at the current version to see what I mean. The text you added appears to be part of a larger block that includes a hyperlink. The added text only shows part of this and is indented for no reason that I can understand. Anyway, thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer. Cheers, --Plumbago (talk) 08:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

P.S. There's been some pH talkpage debate about the pH article's intro. I drafted a potential new version but, not being a chemist, am reluctant to swap it into the article without have a more discerning eye cast over it first. If you've got a minute ...  ;-)