Talk:Luc Robitaille

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Luc Robitaille article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

This article is within the scope of multiple WikiProjects. Click [show] for further details

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Ice Hockey, an attempt at building a useful ice hockey resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information). Edit this message Ice hockey Portal B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. California Portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Southern California, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopedic coverage and content of articles relating to Southern California, its people, history, accomplishments and other topics. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page. This article is also supported by WikiProject California. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale. Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need. This article falls within the scope of the WikiProject Los Angeles, a group of Wikipedians interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage of articles relating to Los Angeles, California, and who are involved in developing and proposing standards for their content, presentation and other aspects. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) ??? This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the importance scale. This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard. This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. Biography Portal B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]

Contents 1 Interim captain 2 Remaining issues 3 Auto Peer Review 4 Additional commentary 5 Luc Robitaille

[edit] Interim captain

We all know that Robitaille was interim captain while Gretzky was injured in the 1992-93 season. However, Robitaille is not listed as "interim" captain in the Kings media guide or in the NHL Official Guide and Record Book. He is listed simply as "captain." To me, that means we have to remove the "interim" label. This is rather reminiscent of a similar discussion we had about his captaincy over on the LA Kings article talk page. -- Gmatsuda 00:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought we'd settled that issue over there. The NHL does not, and never did, have a status called "interim" captain. Either someone wears the "C" for the game or he doesn't.  RGTraynor  05:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I removed the "interrim" label per that discussion from some time ago. -- Gmatsuda 06:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The (interim) tag has been retired, per WikiProject discussion. Sorry for the inconviences everyone. GoodDay 20:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Shame on you! :-) -- Gmatsuda 21:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant well, honest. GoodDay 16:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I was joking! -- Gmatsuda 22:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I know. GoodDay 19:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remaining issues

If you haven't noticed, I've made a huge re-write to this article, and have resolved three of the five issues we had with the article. However, we still have an issue with the amount of citations/references in the article. Most of the information can be taken from the HockeyDB website, so what more citations and references should be added?

Also, in the current version of the article, with the exception of each and every single one of Robitaille's first eight seasons with the Kings, I made mention of all the other seasons, including career highs, lows, and added a couple of franchise ranks I took from the Kings' 2007-08 media guide and NHL/Kings records (overall and amongst left wingers). After all that, I only increased the article's size by 200+ bytes. What more can be added to expand the article? Ksy92003(talk), 21:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

See WP:CITE and WP:VERIFY for guidance on what needs to be cited. That's what I follow now after struggling to get Manzanar (yeah, I know that's not a hockey article) up to FA status. If the goal is to get this article up to FA status eventually, we'll need to follow those guidelines. -- Gmatsuda 21:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

As for expansion, let me think about it for awhile. I know there's more that should be in the article, but I don't have time to nail it down right now. -- Gmatsuda 21:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I know that Luc and his wife Stacia created a program to benefit those who lost their homes during Hurricane Katrina. Being a Kings season-ticket holder, I've heard a lot about that at games and it was mentioned during his jersey retirement ceremony which I went to. If we can find something about that, then that'd be perfect. Robitaille is the best left winger in the history of the NHL. His article shouldn't have any citation issues. Ksy92003(talk), 22:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

That would be worthy of inclusion. FYI: My focus right now (when I'm not covering the Kings) is the Los Angeles Kings article, working to get it up to FA status. Until I finish with that (that could take months), I'm probably not going to be worth much in terms of contributing to this article. I do believe there's more to Robitaile's career that should probably be included, but I don't really have time to think about the specifics. -- Gmatsuda 05:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

When you're off working on Los Angeles Kings, don't worry. I'll stay here and work on this article. I just need some guidance, and hopefully I'll be able to find some good sites on the web, hopefully at lease something about the foundation he and his wife set up. What other information (generic) would be helpful for this article? Ksy92003(talk), 06:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Let me know if you get stuck on stuff that need citations. I have access to media guides dating back to 1993-94, the Official Guide and Record Book and other stuff. I can also contact the Kings directly if we can't find stuff. For now, since we're still developing the article, I'd lean towards citing anything that's a fact and all quotes need to be cited. When we start refining the article to get it to GA and FA, then we can remove unnecessary citations. This way, even if the article gets a little heavy with citations, at least we know what we have is verifiable. -- Gmatsuda 06:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've got a few media guides from the mid-80's, when Robitaille started out, as my father has been a season-ticket holder since the 1980-81 season. You know in the media guide, how when they have the bios for the players on the roster? I'm sure that in the 2005-06 edition there would be something about his play with Team Canada and other stuff. Ksy92003(talk), 07:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Auto Peer Review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
• This article has no or few images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under the Wikipedia:Image use policy and fit under one of the Wikipedia:Image copyright tags that can be uploaded. To upload images on Wikipedia, go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.^[?]
• If this article is about a person, please add {{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}} along with the required parameters to the article - see Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.^[?]
• As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use ^th; for example, instead of using January 30^th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.^[?]
• Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.^[?]
• Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Guide to layout.^[?]
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 22:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional commentary

I was asked for my opinion on the WP:GA potential of this article. I am going to repeat most of my commments here some of which the auto review has mentioned:

1. You need about a 3 paragraph lead for an internet era All-star professional athlete GA.
2. You might add an entire lead para about his playoff career if he did anything significant.
3. You might want to subsection the main text in the pro career section. Maybe All-star years (up to 94) and the rest or three sections.
4. You also could link some hockey terms like goals, assists. It seems to me that the All-star years I would think should have more text without doing any research.
5. For reference, you should take a look at comparable GAs.
6. Can you find at least one reference per paragraph? That is a very common standard for high quality articles nowadays. For GA you are going to have to give the article a tertiary resource feel. I.E., you are going to have to cite enough secondary sources that it sounds like everything you are saying is being said by a reliable source and that all facts are attributable or could be easily verified. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:LOTD) 22:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Luc Robitaille

First looking at the refs, I would change to a two section style. I would have a notes section not using the {{cite book}} referring to pages formatted to read 2006–07 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide, p. 203. I would also have a references section using the {{cite book}} reading Los Angeles Kings Communications Department. 2006–07 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide without page numbers.

First section. I am lost what years was he in the CHL? I know this is clear in the stats section, but you should make the text cleaner.

Link Second NHL All-Star Team, junior hockey, goal, point, assist, penalty minutes.

50+ goal ->50-goal

many citations still needed.

making progress though.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 00:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the existing citations are fine. I used the same formating in an article i got promoted to FA, so they should suffice in their existing format. Just don't forget to include the publisher in the first instance of the citation whenever possible. I don't see a need for a Notes section. As stated above, more references should be used. Good progress so far. When you're finished, I'll have more. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 00:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I added the links and the CHL years. As for the {{cite book}}, I got that from the Los Angeles Kings article, which I'll make the assumption were added by Gmatsuda. I had forgotten the publisher in those citations because... I don't know why, I just didn't. Maybe it was because I didn't know what to put for that. To me, the references look good so far (probably POV, as I'm the one who added them :D) and I know that I can get more when I have the time, and will try to Monday morning. Right now, there are 7 "citation needed" tags remaining that I added, some of which I'm sure can either be found in the Media Guides or can just be removed altogether, but that's still a huge improvement on the 16 I had originally placed earlier today, and again, improving from 5 references to 20 is a huge improvement.

One thing I'm still concerned about is the enormous section for his entire NHL career. I have pondered this since I did the re-write, but I still don't know of a good enough way to split it up. Gmatsuda, if you have any suggestions, feel free to implement them in the article. I think we're making good progress here, and hopefully I can get as much as I possibly can get done within the coming week. Ksy92003(talk) 01:39, 31 December 2007 (UTC)