Talk:John Barleycorn
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Burns version is not the original — we have versions of John Barleycorn from England and Scotland dating from the 16th and 17th centuries [1] [2]. I'll fix the entry shortly. —Ashley Y 18:43, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)
Done. I'm also tempted to replace Burns version with an earlier one. —Ashley Y 19:14, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Another relavant reference
The topic of John Barleycorn is also referred to several times in "The Big Book," Alcoholics Anonmyous, usually relating to the feeling of an alcoholics' having been drinking - how the feeling is, to the alcoholic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garrettinphx (talk • contribs) on 07:48, February 13, 2006.
[edit] Name change?
There is also a novel called John Barleycorn by Jack London. Should we change the name of this page and create a disambiguation page or just add a note at the top? Stroika 14:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'd add a custom disambiguation line. The Jack London novel takes its name from the folk tradition that this one is about. Smerdis of Tlön 14:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Aaah that's what the {{dablink|Text}} tag is called. Ta. A preferable solution. Stroika 15:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] More variations than any other?
The claim that "there are more versions of this song than any other in the English language" seems a bold one to make without substantiation. Indeed there are numerous other possible contenders for this crown. Without too much thought I would suggest that the Gypsy Davy / Raggle-Taggle Gypsy / Seven Yellow Gypsies meme, and possibly even Barbara Allen could eclipse John Barleycorn in this respect, although I don't see how this could ever be authoritatively quantified. I have edited the text to soften this claim.
[edit] LaborLawTalk
This link was defective, pointing to a site that no longer worked. However, rather than being deleted the defectice link was allowed to remain, with a note attached. I have replaced this with a link to alternative versions of 16th/17th century verses which serve, I hope, the same purpose. abdullahazzam
[edit] Most notable recording?
The claim that the recording by Traffic is the most notable seems more opinion than encyclopedic. Is there a particular reason why this is the most notable recording? --Robminchin 05:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] John Barleycorn as a pagan rite?
Does someone want to rewrite (delete?) the second paragraph? It has no citation ans seems speculative at best. And it has errors: refering to corn, not barley and refering to bread not liquor. Or am I missing something?WBerta 15:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Most scholars and folklorists believe it is from a pagan rite, sadly a lot of websites say it is from Celtic which is misinformed speculation as the song obviously comes from the old pagan religion of the English and thus connected with the Wen (see Vanir). There is a trend to make the old English into a bunch of thieves who steal off the Celts. Bah!
I'll try to find citations for that paragraph when I have time, even though I don't really think we should bother seeing as it is such a widely held belief. DR. Martin Hesselius 16:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
- widely held beliefs can still be wrong beliefs! ;) Totnesmartin 19:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
As long as the entry is balanced, it surely doesn't matter whether the beliefs are correct or not: they are indeed widespread. For a citation, try "Beowulf & Grendel: The Truth Behind England's Oldest Legend," by John Grigsby, which I think contains an analysis, but maybe someone else could comment. Although I'm not happy with the idea, he's following a long tradition within the folk revival. There were numerous articles in pagan magazines in the eighties and nineties, as well, I think as at least one in J. EFDSS and one in Folklore. It's relatively simple to turn out an article and get published in short order. In the interests of NPOV, I'd have to state that (a) from the earliest texts it's not really clear that the theme is explicit death and resurrection, rather than simply the crop cycle, but also that the Christian 'death and resurrection' themes cited in the paragraph can also be found in earlier near-east religions. But as ever, I'll leave other people some time to comment (?Fuzzypeg?) before I wade in, even though I know that's maybe not the point of a wiki. Ffetcher 08:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Performances
A couple of the paragraphs here:
"The song is frequently cited by devotees of Sir James George Frazer..." and "As shown above, the point of the tale told by the original versions is twofold:..."
surely either need modification to refer to particular performances, or to be moved to the main text. Ffetcher 08:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg
Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg
Image:Traffic-John Barleycorn Must Die (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:19, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
