User talk:JNZ

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Contents 1 Establishment of The Wikimedia Hong Kong 2 Comecon 3 Venue suggestion needed for a meet-up in Yuen Long 4 message from Dagadt 5 CfD nomination of Category:New Zealand-centric 6 WP:AUK 7 Antipasto

[edit] Establishment of The Wikimedia Hong Kong

[edit] Comecon

You had asked some time ago for an updating of the Comecon article. I have done so; I think I've done a fairly good job. Admittedly, I was working from a single source, but it was, itself, a broad survey of the literature, so I think it was a good one to work from. - Jmabel | Talk 17:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Venue suggestion needed for a meet-up in Yuen Long

[edit] message from Dagadt

Thank you very much for your answer! Dagadt (talk) 09:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CfD nomination of Category:New Zealand-centric

I have nominated Category:New Zealand-centric (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Hemlock Martinis (talk) 20:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AUK

This is an invitation to WikiProject Auckland, a WikiProject which aims to develop and expand Wikipedia's articles on Auckland. Please feel free to join us.

Taifarious1 09:38, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Antipasto

Hi JNZ,

I'm not sure what your thing with antipasto is, but please stop claiming that it's some kind of cornerstone of New Zealand cuisine unless you have a source. Obviously a lot of people you know eat it a lot, but it is far from universal; I have to say I have never been to someone's house for dinner and had an antipasto platter as the first course. Possibly me and my friends and family are all weird, but this does show that you need some kind of citation. Thanks. --Helenalex (talk) 01:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly and relevant to my response here, we just had a company social/meal celebration earlier this afternoon here in a rural and non-touristy part of North Canterbury (it is a farming district, not Hanmer Springs or Kaikoura) which is one of the two most Pakeha-internsive regions in the country, and my boss, who organized the meal, is about as traditional Kiwi as you get here - certainly no Jafa and not even a city person. The main feature of the meal gathering is, you guessed it, antipasto. A bowl of aioli surrounded by julienned celery and carrots, and another plate is plattered with green and black olives, sun-dried tomatoes, liver pate, salami (pepperoni?). Mind you, we are not in Jafaland aka Auckland, so you can't simply dismiss our case as a cosmopolitan-area outlier. So the fact that we in rural NZ serve antipasto for entertaining guests does say something.

Allyson Gofton has put ways to make an antipasti platter in her recipe books without labelling this as "ethnic dish" as she does laksa (eg see this http://www.ecook.co.nz/index.php/ps_pagename/recipedetail/pi_recipeid/2080 ), and Peta Mathias claims it has become a common part of meals for entertaining guests (see her descriptions on olives, delicatessens, aioli on her A Cook's Tour of New Zealand (2005)), so I strongly disagree it is not yet a part of New Zealand cuisine. I wouldn't say your picture is incorrect, and indeed your perception of what NZ cuisine is and should be is identical to the picture my HK Chinese migrant parents still hold. It is only that perception has become a little out of date or old-fashioned. NZ food has been turned upside down pretty much since 1995, so perhaps the wave of change hasn't caught among your family and friends yet.

Anyhow, there is soon going to be a publication on the history and evolution of New Zealand cuisine in September, First, Catch Your Weka: The Story of New Zealand Cooking by David Veart. I think we should declare ceasefire to the argument of whether NZ cuisine is morphing into generic cosmopolitan fares (my side) or still sticking to traditional dishes (your side) these days, and use Veart's book as a judge. --JNZ (talk) 10:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree to the ceasefire. I think you might be missing my point, though. I'm not denying that antipasto is fairly popular (if a little dated here in Auckland). I'm just saying it is not a particularly iconic or crucial part of NZ cuisine. Basically I can't think of any reason for including antipasto which would not also justify the inclusion of corn chips, sushi, sorbet, risotto and about a million other dishes/foods which are popular here. The point of the page and the list of iconic foods is not to list everything that New Zealanders commonly eat (which would be a huge list) but to give an indication of the things which are widely seen as essential to New Zealand cuisine(s). Obviously this is pretty subjective, which is why I wanted a source. If Veart or anyone else says that antipasto has become iconic or a major part of the New Zealand diet, I'm willing to accept that.

Thinking about this, I suppose we're running into a problem about what 'New Zealand cuisine' actually means. If it just means 'what New Zealanders eat' then it is so broad as to be meaningless. If it means a sort of 'kiwiana' view of New Zealand food (pavlova and fish n chips) then it is probably about 30 years out of date. We should probably try and work out what we're talking about before we get into arguments about content.

Please reply on my page; I generally don't watchlist other people's talk pages. --Helenalex (talk) 23:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I fully agree that the acceptance of outside influences is an important part of recent NZ cuisine, which is why I wrote a big section on exactly that. I just don't agree that antipasto is any more important than most of the many, many other new foods which people have started eating here in the last few decades. Like I said earlier, if we include antipasto then why not sushi, guacamole, yum cha, risotto, etc etc etc? Surely it is enough to say that people's tastes have broadened without listing everything that people have started eating. Rather than bickering on each others' talk pages, perhaps we should take this opportunity to actually try and find a definition of New Zealand cuisine, and generally work on improving the page based on good sources. --Helenalex (talk) 05:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)