Talk:Gas-operated reloading
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[edit] Requested move
Rename to conform to naming conventions of case and nouns/adjectives.
- Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
[edit] Proposed name change
Isn't there supposed to be something here about proposed name change to Gas operation?
- I figured it was non-controversial and didn't need discussion. Apologies. Added now. -Ethan0 19:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
That sounds like a medical procedure to reduce burping to me.
I'd suggest gas-operated reloading instead. Gene Nygaard 22:14, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
- Even more problematic, gas operation suggests to me a secondary recovery procedure in oil and gas extraction, or possibly most any pneumatic device, maybe a jackhammer or dentist's drill or whatever. It's just too cryptic. Only a few of the Google hits for the phrase "gas operation" deal with firearms. Gene Nygaard 22:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
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- I suggested "Gas operation" to be consistent with Recoil operation. Seems like if one is changed so should the other, perhaps. Though there are others (Blowback (arms); Gas-delayed blowback) as well that aren't particularly consistent. Seems like these could stand to be updated, along with Firearm action (which doesn't even currently link to the main articles on the systems - I'll work on that). Maybe "Gas action"? -Ethan0 19:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
- Second Gene Nygaard's suggestion. Gas-operated has far too wide a range of meanings. Rd232 22:39, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
- I agree, and to be precise, it should be "Gas-operated reloading", without "Operated" capitalized as it currently is. 24.30.66.41 15:37, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Request not fulfilled due to lack of consensus. Rob Church Talk 20:38, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
- But there was consensus that the current name of the article isn't what it should be. How would I go about re-opening a requested move discussion? Just newly add it to WP:RM, or what? Ethan0 19:18, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
It is not a matter of opinion; look up and reference any military manuals on the type of operation their weapons have. Gas-Operated is one of those types. This is why I created this page in the first place. I fail to see what else "Gas-Operated" implies, and how this could lead to confusion with other subjects and have 'far too wide a range of meanings' unless someone is not familiar with fiearms, then in which case it makes it even worse to change a page because of lack of experience and familiarization. "Recoil Operation" should be changed to "Recoil-Operated" and so on and so forth. "Gas-Operated Reloading" is beyond redundant, and action in a firearm is determined by how the bolt is worked. I vote no. 66.47.50.214 08:49, 21 November 2005 (UTC) Brenden
[edit] Image needs legend
The current image labels six components but they are not explained in either the text or the caption. It's kind of jarring. I suggest that they be labelled in the caption. -- Mike Wilson 04:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- Cool. I think it's better. -- Mike Wilson 07:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- Thx. :) --shotgunlee 08:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Inaccurate Definitions
The definition of short stroke and long stroke gas operation are incorrect, implying that the time duration that the piston is subjected to the gas determines the type of gas operation. This is a revisionist definition that has never been included in any manuals or reference books I'm aware of. In fact, one of the footnotes [3] relies on the bore x stroke of an automotive engine. !! Indeed, the impetus duration or either so-called long or short stroke gas operation is probably about the same, it is whether or not the piston makes the entire journey the bolt carrier group does.
In a firearm application, a long stroke piston is attached to the bolt carrier and makes the complete trip back and forth with the bolt carrier. Examples are AK-47 and BAR M1918;
Short stroke refers to a separate piston that moves only a short distance, imparting a motion to the bolt carrier which continues its work leaving the piston at the end of its travel. M1 Carbine, M14, SVD Dragunov, M60 Machine gun all are examples of short stroke pistons.
The M1 Garand is an archaic example that could almost be called a separate type of operation which I would propose to call "long impetus" gas operated reloading. It is archaic and was abandoned as unnecessarily fussy and complicated; it required special ammunition that operated within a narrow band of pressure to avoid wrecking the system. Even the derivative US Rifle, M14 used the short stroke piston.
- Your understanding of the operation of a piston is incorrect as are numerous descriptions in the gun world. Short-stroke and long-stroke pistons operate differently in firearms as they do in internal combustion engines. Due to the fairly small sample size of firearm pistons vs. internal combustion engines, it might seem simple to use arbitrary distinctions to describe short vs. long stroke, however the bottom line is that an AR-18 and AK-47 piston operate IDENTICALLY. Now, what happens AFTER the power stroke differs in the way you described, however this is not the 'stroke' of the piston. Read Hatcher's Notebook before you continue to argue your point.--Asams10 03:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
