Talk:Christina of Sweden

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Christina was a CATHOLIC who bankrupted PROTESTANT Sweden from within, and then bailed.... this is exactly what CATHOLIC Bloody Mary did to PROTESTANT England 100 years earlier. I find it difficult to fathom that Protestants are this dumb that they don't get it. Catholics get to laugh at me... but I'm not sure why. Only Catholics think apparently.

She was a catholic after she left sweden, and not a very good one at that. Her 'bankrupting' of sweden was the fault of her own personal excess and sod all to do with her religion (Johnny Copper 12:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC))

Page seems subject to vandalism, some large and small. Is this common for articles with given names? Two minor incidents moved here:

vandalism removed from article: ONe of the most famous Christina's is Christina Sparks of Rochester, Minnesota. She was born on May 17, 1991. WBardwin 08:56, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

vandalism removed from article: "I LOVE TOM WELLING!!!!!!!!hehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehe" WBardwin 07:35, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Gay icons? 2 Squadrones volantes? 3 POV? 4 Ex Site with Childhood Images 5 Not transgendered? 6 Christina vs. Catholic Encyclopaedia

[edit] Gay icons?

Why was she in category:gay icons? I removed the category. /81.170.235.234 15:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

She is considered a Gay icon for a variety of reasons - read the article. She is suspected to have been born intersexed (meaning not entirely female or male but somehwere in between), was teated as a boy by her father and dressed as a man. She was bisexual as an adult. She refused to marry and pursued an independent life that women of her time could scarce consider. Only her postion and wealth permitted her to live that way. She as portrayed on screen y anohter Gay icon, Greta Garbo. So you see, the LGTB has many reasons to claim her as an icon.Lisapollison 17:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Not getting married is not the same thing as being bisexual... Are there any written sources that indicate her bisexuality? Considering the taboos of her time, I'd guess it would be impossible to find such sources. And we should not speculate. Also, Greta Garbo is not a gay icon and wether she has portrayed Kristina on film or not is irrelevant. /81.170.235.234 22:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Weather or not she was bisexual is not important, she's still a popular figure in the gay community, hence a gay icon. And likewise Greta Garbo, as far as i know. --84.217.108.49 13:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The existens of at least five loveletters to three different women might be a good reason for beliving Christina wasn´t altogheter straight.Her most wellknown relation was with Ebba Sparre, the three loveletters to her are publiched in Sven Stolpes "Christina - Brev från sex decennier".They Ebba and Christina were very close, and there was gossip already at that time about the relation. (letter from count Magnus 1654, publiched in Sven Stolpes book)--Godfellow 16:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squadrones volantes?

What the f***k are "squadrones volantes"? Never heard of some "mobile trouble-shooting unit" of the Vatican's in early modern times!! From the linguistic point of view, this is neither latin (as it may have been dressed up to look like) nor italian nor french. Could the contributor please specify on that, and could all who feel responsible for the article please try to figure this out? I will make no changes, because I'm really not sure, just very little confident on this particular information. User:Reminiscor 14:36, 16 Mar 2006 (CET)

it's the Squadrone Volante and wasn't an 'mobile trouble- shooting unit' it was more or less a faction in the vatican during Christina's time there, one of their major ideologies was to oppose Papal Nepotism. I've removed the sentence in question as utter gibberish, until I can thonk of something better to replace it with.(Johnny Copper 10:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC))

I've readded mention of it with proper context (Cardinal Azzolino as her platonic lover).

[edit] POV?

In the paragraph "Some disgust which she received at Rome...", especially "The French court was justly offended at this atrocious deed" (emphasis added). Isn't this flagrant POV? I'll leave it until we can find something better, but I am changing "her ancient subjects" to "her estranged subjects" for general usage. Wilhelm meis 11:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ex Site with Childhood Images

FYI - [1]. "Free" copies of these images might be worth a look! WBardwin 09:08, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not transgendered?

The article says that Kristina wasn't transgendered, and that surprises me, since she tried to change sex as far as i know. What are the reason to believe that she wasn't? People usually say she was... --84.217.108.49 13:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Care to provide a reference for this? I'd be interested to know if it was true. Cristina is often inlcuded on lists of transgendered and/or transsexual icons for her documented appearances in male clothing and under a male name, but as far as I have found, there does not appear to be any explicit evidence of her desiring to become physically male, or to always be regarded as male. Chaning sex would most likely not have been an actual option in her time, beyond a mastectomy. Lucky number 49 05:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course you would need to have a reference to include it in the article, but I actually thought that this was such a common fact that it actually was mentioned in most of the comprehensive sources, and I actually right now don't have any better source. And, in order to be considered transgendered, she also wouldn't have needed to desire actually changing sex, but yes, of course, she would have in order to be considered transsexual. I've read in an issue of the swedish gender-study magasine, Genus, where some researcher states that "she today probably would have been considered transsexual" (wich I consider a bit speculative..), and the story goes that she actually tried to change sex via alchemestry, and that she in the beginning thought that she was about to succed when she got a prolapse. I'm not sure whether the last story actually was included in Genus, though, and the article where she is mentioned in the magazine that I now can find is [this one (in swedish)]. The last story can be found on this (http://lukas.romson.org/transhistoria.htm swedish transgender) site]]. Whether or not the story about the alchemestry can be confirmed, the first article confirms amongst other things that she at least in some sence considered herself male. --84.217.40.255 12:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC) (flinga on svwiki, same as the first post on this issue above..).

It´s a well known fact that Christina dressed in male clothing, and only because of that she classyfies as transgendered. Ohter crossdressing royalties are considered transgendered,why not Christina?

We cannot know what Christina really felt about her gender, if she today would have been transsexual, transvestite or transgendered in some other way we cannot know. What we can know is what she did. She did order a painting of herself, sitting on a warhorse in the same pose as Alexander the Great, a man she is wellknown for admiering.(Sebastién Bourdons "Queen Christina at horse", 1653)

She did wrote "The female sex is much troublesome and a great obstacle for virtue and worth. Its the greates natures mistake to own. Its almost incorrigble and few people have hounorablerescuedthemeselves from it." (Pentées de Christine,p 229 no 340) and in a questioned (love)letter to lady Diane de Joanniste the queen wrote about a waiting for a metamorphos nad how she wanted to be a man and adore Diane as a man.(Lettres secretes de Christine, reine deSuede(Genevé 1761)).Abbé Servient wrote to Colbert de Croissy 1680 about Chrsitinas cervix prolapse,which she thugt was the growing of a penis. That letter is a part of french diplomatmail and most likely very authentic.

These indications of Christinas feelings about her gender is presented in a book,"Kung Krisitina" (King Chrisitina) written by Kjell Lekeby,swedish author. His book is questioned,but he points out a very important question: Maybe Christina was not only victim of patriarchy and therfor slanderd as "man" when she was not"female"enough? Maybe she actually felt as a man and herself acted as man,not only because of neccesity (as awoman wiht power in a sociaty were most woman had no power) but out of her feelings of her gender?--Godfellow 12:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christina vs. Catholic Encyclopaedia

Could there be a less suitable source for Christina's biography than the Catholic Encyclopaedia?It's the very book that should have been avoided, with this particular subject. --Ghirla^-трёп- 23:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The catholic encyclopedia has always seemed pretty accurate to me. But even if we don't consider it a neutral source it would still be useful to know what the catholic perception of Christina was. Jordan toronto (talk) 21:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

== Picture of reception in Rome for Queen Christina --

There was a picture attached to this article entitled "Celebration of Queen Christina's arrival in Rome in front of Palazzo Barberini". I corrected it to Palazzo Aldobrandini-Chigi (the home of the then-Pope Alexander VII [Chigi]). My correction somehow deleted the picture. Hope someone can replace/restore it. 4.243.164.17 15:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)Daniel F. Baedeker