Talk:Adverse possession

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Contents 1 Blatent contradiction in Head 2 Help with POV section on the effect of adverse possession 3 Squatters rights 4 Discussion of possible merge with squatters rights 5 famous examples examples of adverse possession in action? 6 Shouldn't there be a discussion of the progression? 7 Seems Unjust 8 No "Why" 9 Recent Examples

[edit] Blatent contradiction in Head

This is said to be common law, then totally statutory. I am not versed in the law in this area, howeverone or the other must be false. (Or maybe, if it were historically under common law, this is not made clear). Bamkin 12:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The modern principle of adverse possession is entirely statutory. The common law position is complicated as there were a number of forms of action, but none of them depended on showing possession for a period of time. Francis Davey 11:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help with POV section on the effect of adverse possession

At the moment the section of the article that deals with the effect of the limitation period running out is POV, the problem is its unclear *which* POV. Can someone locate a jurisdiction where its true please. I do wish editors would do this as a matter of course.

In my jurisdiction (England and Wales) expiry of the limitation period extinguishes title in unregistered land. The adverse possessor becomes the legal owner of the property, not the equitable one. I suspect that in most common law jurisdictions outside the US that is true where land is unregistered.

For registered land the registered title holder becomes trustee for the adverse possessor.

I'd like to sharpen this up. Please could someone clarify that it works that way for them.Francis Davey 22:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

No-one has said anything, so I'll assume I can go ahead and change it. If anyone knows better, they can give some precise indication of which jurisdiction they know about. Francis Davey 15:49, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you just go ahead and change it (making it clear of course which jurisdiction you are writing about). If somebody has writen about precise law without mentioning jurisdication, the information is not particularly useful... Bamkin 12:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Squatters rights

Was the squatter's rights page deleted? --Rj 05:24, Apr 24, 2004 (UTC)

The page was squatters' rights listed for cleanup, and redirected to adverse possession. You can still see the history. Cecropia 05:52, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of possible merge with squatters rights

There appears to be some overlap or conflation of the concepts of squatters, homesteaders and adverse possessors. The latter may acquire legal or equitable ownership of property through the inaction of the rightful owners in timely evicting them. Do squatters have any ownership right, or is it more of a simple trespass that has failed to meet all the requirements of adverse possession? For example, can you secretly squat? This would not lead to any rights of a.p. because a.p. must be open, continuous and notorious, such that an ordinary prudent owner would note the hostile presence and is required to take steps to stop the clock. If someone "gets tired" of having you squat, can the owner of record evict you or tear down the premises, even if the statute of limitations for trespass has expired? Under a.p. law, the owner of record is no longer the rightful owner and has no further right to enter the a.p. property, once the a.p. is completed. In fact, the new owner must now exclude or evict the former owner if he tries to enter. Right? A merge may be possible, but squatting seems more of a temporary thing, as compared to complete transfer of ownership by process of adverse possession. Lupinelawyer 29 June 2005 05:05 (UTC)

I agree. “Squatter's rights” is not just a synonym of adverse possession. Legislation like the Preemption Act of 1841 gave rights to squatters apart from statutory or common law adverse possession rights. Also, the concept can also refer to laws that make it difficult to evict tenants or trespassers and even more mundane usages such as policies that allow on campus students to get first “bid” on the dorm room they had the prior term. Xlation 18:03, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] famous examples examples of adverse possession in action?

It would be nice to include a section listing actual cases of adverse possession. Famous example would be best but even obscure cases would be interesting if they were recent.

Also, examples from as many different jurisdictions as possible would be nice. E.g. are there examples of adverse possession in the USA? Funkyj 18:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shouldn't there be a discussion of the progression?

It would be nice to include a discussion of AP from Roman law. Additionally, it seems inappropriate to discuss AP without explaining that it can be used as a defense to a claim of trespass, or an eviction. Finally there should be applications for AP as it applies to tenants and landlords as well as a discussion of AP of chattels. I'm not willing to take this on, but this article seems far from even scratching the surface.

[edit] Seems Unjust

Hasn't anyone in the legal profession questioned the fairness and reasonableness of adverse possession? If a hostile person intimidates a landowner for a sufficient period, or if the landowner is disabled and has difficulty patrolling his land, the government will punish the victim and reward the criminal? Would anyone seriously propose this now, if it weren't traditional? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.26.171 (talk) 21:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

There have been challenges to the justice of adverse possession in my jurisdiction, but it has served a very important purpose in a system of unregistered land, namely that if someone has occupied land for a sufficiently long period of time they (and anyone buying from them) can be sure that there was not some hidden defect in their title a long time in the past. We simply can't go back to the beginning of time and make sure that all transactions were legal back to then, there has to be a cut-off point. The periods are quite long (12 years for unregistered land) and the kinds of situations you envisage do not happen in practice. Adverse possession takes place usually where a landowner has forgotten the land. With registered land, the doctrine has been effectively abolished. By the way it is not traditional, its a recent invention (relatively speaking) the ancient law knew nothing of it. It was invented later on. Francis Davey 08:12, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No "Why"

The discussion above about adverse possession being unjust got me thinking about why there isn't anything in this article (like in the header) describing why adverse possession exists. It may seem unjust, but from my understanding (that is, from an American law student's perspective) is that it exists to uphold the presumption that alienation of land is a good thing. We (in America) don't like land being held in large estates perpetually. Therefore, we give the "common man" the chance to adversely possess the "sleeping owner," who in all likelihood isn't watching over the vast amount of land he owns for a long period of time. Is it the same in England? I'd like to refine that statement and add it to the header if no one objects. What does everyone think? RMelon (talk) 22:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Examples

Undid edits where someone removed the recent examples section. Please suggest modifications to the text before just deleting it.

TwakTwik (talk) 01:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• The material concenrs living individuals and seems to serve little purpose in documenting the legal concept of adverse possession. Citing this as the sole "recent example" looks a lot like a dig at the subjects. I think we can do without it. Guy (Help!) 18:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
• Agree with JzG. Even if useful, it is probably not the most legally relevant case, and the detail was such as to be overall negative rather than legally helpful. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 18:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

We need to find more examples and document them. Its a start. I am ok with changing the text and removing the names, but it is important to note that this centuries old law is still in effect. How about this:

"Recent examples of adverse possession include a land dispute in Boulder, CO. [link]".

The point is that this is not a law that gets exercised often, when it happens, its news.

TwakTwik (talk) 20:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)