Talk:Robert Frost
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[edit] Home in VT ransacked
Can someone determine if this info has a place in an article: http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/books/12/31/robertfrostsite.vandals.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview Lostwars —Preceding comment was added at 17:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think this does have a place in this article, as I don't think it adds anything to the actual story of Robert Frost, so I 've removed the section. Celestethepirate (talk) 01:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Source
Is there a source for the quote under his stamp about life goes on?
[edit] Religion
What religion was Frost? Ohemgee (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
- Although his relatives came from Unitarian and Universalist backgrounds he was not particularly religious. See also here. Dr.K. (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. Should that get more of a mention? Maybe just a line somewhere.. Ohemgee (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how it could fit in. Normally religion is not used just as a fact. Only if it somehow influenced his work or had some other significant impact. If you can find some noteworthy connection to religion you could try to edit it in. Dr.K. (talk) 06:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I'm writing a short paper for class on "Stopping by woods on a snowy evening" and there is a religious interpretation of it I've seen. So I was wondering what his religion was, to see if it was at all plausible that he intended or recognized that reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohemgee (talk • contribs) 06:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
- I see. I'm not sure how much his formal religious background influenced his work but there was some religious component in that poem and it is analyzed here. I hope this helps. Good luck. Dr.K. (talk) 06:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ambiguous pronoun
- "His father was a former teacher turned newspaper man, a hard drinker, a gambler, a harsh disciplinarian; he had a passion for politics, and dabbled in them, for as long as his health allowed."
Is ambiguous as to who "he" is. It should probably be clarified, but I'm not 100% sure which the correct is. 69.120.89.71 13:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
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- I think that it is ambiguous. It is assumed that the "he" in the sentence is the aforementioned father. Good question, though. -MaytrixInk
[edit] Missing info
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- This article misses the fact that Frost was brought to the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor and spent a significant amount of time there see: http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/9900/May08_00/12.htm
[edit] Bias
One could easily say it's just as biased to prefer Ezra Pound or WCW or Eliot. The truth is-- numerous poets have been called the 'greatest poet of the 20th century' depending on who it is that feels that way.
There is no offical board that decides who the 'greatest poet is'.
The closest thing might be the in some ways amorphous 'academic world', which tends, however, not to be politically amorphous-- and which, for it's own self-serving reasons, will 'canonize' certain writers over others (politics poisoning art more than it's versa).
71.208.229.216 12:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Greatest American poet of the 20th century? How about William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, T. S. Eliot (at least half American) etc. Debatable and un-NPOV, in my view, for a first line. Started as a stub; time to change it. Mandel - May 11, 2004.
- Well, it does say "in the opinion of many". It should even be easy to find some poll, or other source to support it, I would guess. Rmhermen 20:16, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Not as easy as I guessed - most sites either presume it (like the curriculum sites where students must answer "Why was Frost America's most popular poet?") or use words like "perhaps the most popular". The one poll I found for "most popular poet" had Langston Hughes as the winner. Rmhermen 21:01, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Popular isn't the same as greatest. I've no arguments with him as America's most popular poet (easily proven, and I think a good case), but greatest? Mandel
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- If he's easily proven most popular, then I think we can assume that "in the opinion of many" he is "greatest" is reasonably NPOV. Change it to "in the opinion of some" if you want, but I think that's about as much trouble as the issue is worth. --Chinasaur 01:33, May 12, 2004 (UTC)
- These two terms are simply not interchangable. BTW I do not dislike Frost; I'm just trying to be accurate here. But being the most popular and being the greatest are simply not the same; and if neither proven should not be put on record. I may not like Michael Jordan, but I can grudgingly admit he is the greatest basketballer who ever lived; ditto for Maradona.
- A case in point is raised in the recent American Idol. One of the finest singers got voted off, causing an uproar. One of the judges said something to the effect that: "America, choose the best singer. This is *not* a popularity contest." "Greatest" denotes a critical evaluation and comparison of the poet's intrinsic worth with others, not just a mere liking. For an encyclopedia like Wikipedia you simply can't afford to be so nonchalant. People read the first para to get an idea of the subject and if so, they may go off with a mistaken idea that Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet. Mandel - May 12, 2004.
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- It doesn't say that "Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet." It says that he is considered 'by many Americans [to be] the greatest poet.'" Maybe you should insert a sentence about what academics think.
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- Fine. But is it true he's regarded as the greatest poet by many or most lay Americans? I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion on who's the greatest 20th century poet. Not that there's anything wrong in that.
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- Doing a Google search: "greatest American poet" and "20th century" gives variously Eliot, Hart Crane, Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ezra Pound. Mandel
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- I think that by saying that "I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion..." etc, you are categorizing the American people into a lumped group of illiterate uneducated apes, while you can't even use the correct word in a sentence. "Doesn't" really doesn't fit there. And most American's know why they like a certain poet, don't discriminate because you think your level of intelligence is higher. The basis of this argument is not whether the American people are qualified to vote for their favorite poet. One does not need to be a professor of literature to know why a poem speaks to them. Please stop making assumptions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MaytrixInk (talk • contribs) 16:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
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[edit] Quote
Does anyone know if the quote about liberals is for real? I've seen it attributed to Frost in a lot of places, but is this a real attribution or a fake? john k 20:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
- It's a tricky situation. I've just modified the article based on the fact that I couldn't find the quote as it was rendered in the article anywhere except mirrors of this article, and I had an RS which gave it in a different form. However, after I'd made the change, I found a New York Times article ("Robert Frost Returns With Word of Khrushchev; Met Premier Saturday" by Philip Benjamin. New York Times, Sept 10, 1962. pg. 8) where yet a different wording is given:
"Khrushchev said he feared for us modern liberals," the 88-year-old poet said. "He said we were too liberal to fight. ...
So, two RSes with different wordings. I must admit I'm not sure how the discrepancy should be handled. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Re-Organisaton and mojor edit.
I am planning to do a major edit to this article. It leaves some facts out and could use a huge over-haul. If anyone has any comments / criticisims please post here. (this may involve re-writing parts of the article) Editing will commence this weekend. Flying Canuck 00:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I have a mojor [sic] editing problem -- the entire biography is in reference Wallace Stevens and not Frost. 5 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by InfantInquisitor (talk • contribs) 02:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 2nd picture caption
On the page to which the second picture links, it is said that the portrait was not taken at JFK's inaugration. Indeed, Frost would be looking very young for his age if it was. Rather, the photo was used to illustrate an article on his reading at the inaugration. The picture was taken 1910-1920. Cedric du Zob 13:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] the out siders
robert rost had a poem quoted in the book the out siders and when jonny dies he finds the meaning of the poem ........... it means dont waist ur child hood its over befor u know it dont try to grow up so fast —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.214.209.79 (talk • contribs) .
- The poem was Nothing Gold Can Stay.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Link
I removed the broken link at the bottom. I initially was fixing a typo in the title for the link then discovered that it was not there, anyway. If you have any ideas for something to replace it please do so, I'm not an expert on Frost. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 170.140.39.182 (talk • contribs) .
- Note: this comment refers to this edit. --└ Smith120bh/TALK ┐ 05:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Robert Frost a bad person?
'Bad person' might be an oversimplification-- I have read (source forgotten) that he was a very difficult person and may have emotionally abused some vunerable individuals in his life.
Eastern Massachusetts, where he grew up after age 11, is also known for having a rather harsh culture-- perhaps his rough New England ways were also taken by some as abusive.
71.208.229.216 12:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I've heard from several sources that Robert Frost was a really bad person. This opinion of him is also in several novels and plays that I have read or seen, but those who mention it never go into detail about how he got this reputation. Does anyone know anything about this? I think something about this should be in the article. Academic Challenger 04:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
- "A bad person" is a vague description. If we had specifics about what he was supposed to have done that was so bad, that might be legitimate to add, though. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lost Inauguration Poem
Recently it was found that a Kennedy's inauguration Frost was not able to read the poem he had written for the occasion and was forced to recite a different poem from memory. The poem was thought to be lost until it was found in an unmarked envelope by the Kennedy Library. This is signifigant.
- Didn't know about it, so I googled up the Washington Post clip. I think you're right, this is relevant and encyclopedic (and historical). Under fair use, I quoted both "The Gift Outright" and "Dedication", though I am not wed to the specific quotes taken from the latter poem nor what I said about either of them (NPOV/original research concerns). Any Frost scholars want to weigh in here? Expand? He's a good and important poet, and I'd like the entry to begin talking about his meter, his cadences, his subjects and their measure and scale — quoting these two poems is as good a start as any. Sandover 19:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] External Links: TDX?
According to the wiki article about the Theta Delta Chi fraternity, Frost was a member of the fraternity. However, this is not even mentioned in this article. Therefore, I find it useless to have a link to the fraternity website in the external links. I feel it is a shameless plug. I have removed it, but if anyone thinks it belongs, feel free to revert.--E Man Speaks 22:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Swedenborgian church
"His mother joined the Swedenborgian church and had him baptized and circumcised in it..." indeed! She may well have attended to the latter but it has nothing to do with Swedenborgian church doctrine and, pending some documentation of this assertion I have deleted it. Masalai 06:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "School"
What school/movement of poetry did he belong to? Numbercattle
[edit] Possible addition to the "Pop Culture" Category
Robert Frost's poem "Two roads in a yellow wood" was satirized on the comic strip Get Fuzzy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.51.5.124 (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Protection/Semi-Protection
The page probably shouldn't be fully protected, since virtually all of the recent vandalism was from a small number of IP addresses, one or more of which is currently blocked. Semi-protection would probably be better in the future, although for now it is unimportant, since the protection expires in <3 hours.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Middle name
I've included Robert Frost's middle name (Lee) in the first sentence of the article. 208.178.18.185 14:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Road Less Traveled vs. The Road Not Taken
Whilst attempting to write a paper about Robert Frost, I was searching Google for Frost's poem, "The Road Less Traveled". If searched, the poem comes up under either "The Road Less Traveled" or "The Road Not Taken". I have seen the poem under both names, but does anyone know if this is just a mistake, and if so, which name is true? Thanks for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaytrixInk (talk • contribs) 12:15, April 26, 2007
- Off topic, but The Road Not Taken is the name of the poem, "The Road Less Traveled" is one of the lines of the poem. SmileToday☺(talk to me , My edits) 19:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm not sure how this is "off topic" as you say, it's a general question regarding poetry by Robert Frost. Off topic would've been asking about similar poetry. I am fully aware that it is a line in the poem, but when looking for the poem in a library, it was also listed under both names. -MaytrixInk —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.150.200.99 (talk) 14:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Selected Works
The selected works section of this article seems to be a mess. Perhaps someone with extensive knowledge of Frost's works could do an overhaul, or if I come up with some extra time, I will. Some have publisher information and dates, others don't. And I know for a fact that many of these poems are part of North of Boston or Mountain Interval and should be tabbed into that section. -AK1591 20:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- I strongly suggest an author navigation box (which I often do). See Template:Edgar Allan Poe or Template:Charles Dickens for example. If someone undertakes it, you can cut the entire bibliography section and make room for more important encyclopedic information. -Midnightdreary 19:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- I'm beginning some extensive work in this regard, making some sense of the bibliographic parts of this entry. From a library catalog point of view, I'm aiming toward divisions between individual poems, collected works, and other works, with links to contents and/or individual wiki entries. There really ought to be some standard for author entries and their works, whether it's the above-named templates or something else.--Gstapp 17:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
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- Sounds great! Let me know if you need any help. --Midnightdreary 00:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Removal of Popular Culture
Does anyone else disagree with the complete removal of the Popular Culture section from this article on 9-7-07? The removal was done unilaterally and without ANY discussion. Personally, I find it interesting to see how Frost is still relevant in pop culture today and disagree with the remover's finding that the information was "trivial." Any thoughts?
- The removal without discussion probably was a bit hasty. Nonetheless, the section did seem a bit non-encyclopedic. I think the same information could have been worked into a more encyclopedic form that would satisfy both the editor and those who disagree. Please remember to sign your name when making a comment on a talk page as it makes the discussion easier to follow. VirginiaProp 17:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] son's suicide missing and other details
There is no mention in the article of Elinor's death in 1938. there is no mention of two daughters who suffered mental breakdowns or his son Carol, a poet who committ suicide in 1940, and I think he had one other child who also died, out of the six.
This absence of information is criminal. considering its relevance to his work (directive, for example) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.137.3 (talk) 05:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Fortunately, no one has criminalized absence of information. Also happily, it's easily rectified. There does not seem to be a second daughter with a severe mental breakdown. Here's the raw material with which to do it:
Name: Robert Frost ————————————————————————————————————————————— Birth: 26 March 1874 San Francisco, California Death: 29 January 1963 Boston, Massachusetts Burial: 31 January 1963 Old Bennington, Vermont Father: William Prescott Frost Jr. (1850-1885) Mother: Isabelle Moodie (1844-1900) Marriage: 19 December 1895 Lawrence, Massachusetts ————————————————————————————————————————————— Spouse: Elinor Marian White ————————————————————————————————————————————— Birth: 25 October 1873 Lawrence, Massachusetts Death: 20 March 1938 Gainsville, Florida Burial: Old Bennington, Vermont Father: Rev. Edwin White (~1833-) Mother: Henrietta A. (~1845-) —————————————————————————————————————————————
Children ————————————————————————————————————————————— 1 M: Elliot Frost Birth: 25 September 1896 Death: 8 July 1900 (cholera) ————————————————————————————————————————————— 2 F: Lesley Frost Birth: 28 April 1899 Lawrence, Massachusetts Death: 9 July 1983 Fairfield, Connecticut Spouse: James Dwight Francis Marriage: 3 September 1928 New York Divorce: 1 November 1932 Pittsfield, Massachusetts Spouse: Joseph W. Ballantine (head of the State Department's Far Eastern Division under Secretary of State Cordell Hull) Marriage: 23 August 1952 Fairfield, Connecticut ————————————————————————————————————————————— 3 M: Carol Frost Birth: 27 May 1902 Death: 9 October 1940 Shaftsbury, Bennington, Vermont (suicide) Spouse: Lilian LaBatt Marriage: 1923 ————————————————————————————————————————————— 4 F: Irma Frost (committed to a mental hospital following divorce) Birth: 1903 Spouse: John Cone ————————————————————————————————————————————— 5 F: Marjorie Frost Birth: 28 March 1905 Death: 2 May 1934 (puerperal fever following the birth of her first child) Spouse: Willard Edward Fraser (he was later mayor of Billings, Montana for six terms) Marriage: 1933 Billings, Montana ————————————————————————————————————————————— 6 F: Elinor Bettina Frost Birth: 18 June 1907 Death: 21 June 1907
- Nunh-huh 17:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
- I noticed that as well. See below about the Writer's almanac. Ginbot (talk) 17:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 1934?
Did his ancestors really sail to America in 1934 before Frost was born in 1874? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.196.70 (talk) 22:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
- Great point. It was 1634. I checked the history of the article. Please go ahead and change it since you saw it first. Thanks. --Dr.K. (talk) 23:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
You ought to change it as I wouldn't have a clue as to how to do so. I'm only 16. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.196.70 (talk) 19:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] San Francisco Evening Crap
Says his father was an editor. This seems like an awfully strange name for a newspaper. Couldn't find anything on the web about it's existence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omarcheeseboro (talk • contribs) 18:53, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
- It was the Bulletin. I'm going to check history to find the vandal. Meanwhile I'll change it. Thanks for pointing it out. Dr.K. (talk) 20:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Can any 1 help me?
I need some help with a project. Can any of you help me find where I can start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciscokid21 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Can any one listen? (look up)
I would really appreciate it if some one helped. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciscokid21 (talk • contribs) 20:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd recommend asking your teacher to clarify what a good project might involve, and asking your school librarian (if your school has a librarian) or your town librarian (if your town has a library) about how to get the information you need based on what your teacher is looking for.
65.213.77.129 (talk) 16:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] robert frost
he was a great writer, father, husband ,and a great teacher ull have to reserch to find out more —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.107.203 (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Interrupting a lecture on "The road not taken"?
Back in High School, my Drama teacher told about a lecture where the professor described Robert Frost's thought-process as he wrote The Road Not Taken. Then someone in the back asked a question the professor couldn't answer, and the questioner turned out to be Robert Frost, who got up and told the real story while the professor squirmed.
First, is this story true? And if so, what are the details? Or is the story basically correct but about a different writer and work? Or is it just an urban myth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.1.202 (talk) 18:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Writer's Almanac
Last Wednesday 26 March, 2008, the Writer's Almanac (American Public Media - NPR) mentioned Frost's really rough life. It's worth the read, and I didn't see any of that in the article. The marriage is mentioned, but I am refering to the death's in his immediate family. Robert Frost's mention on the Writer's Almanac - Ginbot (talk) 17:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC) I just noticed some else has mentioned this above, didn't catch that at first. But, the Almanac link is yet another source. Ginbot (talk) 17:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
