User talk:John Carter/Archive Aug 2007

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Contents 1 Ooops?? 2 WIkiproject Kenoyim 3 Bus stop 4 EndUN Userbox 5 Your DYK nomination for Gerald of Sauve-Majeure was successful 6 Adoption 7 Fra Angelico 8 DYK 9 First Council of Constantinople 10 Thanks 11 Service award 12 Saint Cuthbert (Dungeons & Dragons) 13 Pennsylvania Ministerium 14 Wikipedia:WikiProject Japanese mythology/Assessment 15 Paul Couturier 16 Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Evolutionary biology/Assessment 17 Morgellons article marked as needing immediate attention 18 Delusional Parasitosis 19 List of Wikiprojects 20 New template 21 July 13th, 2007 DYK 22 Image copyright problem with Image:Kittenwar1.gif 23 DYK 24 project evaluations 25 WikiProject James Bond 26 Wikiproject Cambodia 27 Treehouse of Horror? 28 Talk:Nayland W. Blake 29 Mythology tags on Hinduism articles 30 Judith Hird 31 Reorus Torkillus 32 Holy cow... 33 wikitruth: Tobias Conradi did not use 22 or so socks

[edit] Ooops??

Georgiana molloy was a botanist - but a saint? Um here in WA we have never heard of her being one - but then - we might have missed something :) SatuSuro 14:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

She was a very good botanist though. —Moondyne 14:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting - having had some experience of both the anglican and catholic traditions here in australia - i think that calendar is extremely unreliable as an indicator of sainthood in either tradition - I would counsel against it as a sufficient reference - deitrich bonhoffer was protestant martyr - and he is in the list as well - I would recommend other sources as first ref - and each article would have to be checked to see what happens - my memory of the anglican sainthood process is very rusty - but i suspect a large number in the list belong to that what the catholic tradition would called 'blessed' - that is candidates for the sainthood process - it is what some in that list might actually possess - and not really be eventually saints. Hope that helps SatuSuro 14:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow - thanks for your considered response - and I appreciate you taking the time out to explain! I suppose what I was suggesting is that what i can remember about anglican prayer/calender lists from my youth (mind you they have changed a bit since then... :) is that they would include people who had no formal recognition of even being blessed within the protestant traditions - If indeed I find the older australian anglican prayer books/formal calendars that i know i have somewhere - or any online or offline synod sources as to accreditation of blessed and others - I'll give you a call! so to speak. cheers SatuSuro 14:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Doh! stupid me -apologies - most of the answer is at Saints in Anglicanism which explains the dual nature of an anglican background an practising catholic could get very confused! SatuSuro 14:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Also in a fit of frustration at what looks like an antedeluvian igrnoring of the finer points of the categories involved - I have attempted to increase the size of the Category:Non-article Anglicanism pages somewhat - just to give the project a gentle tap on the shoulder - in the process see that the catholic prject needs the same... sigh SatuSuro 03:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

ahah - if you know about the issues of template tweaking - I had asked cj and longhair - two australian friends who seem to know what to do under the bonnet of the templates - to see if the category class in the project catholicism could be tweaked so that class=category is an NA and not an assessable issue - there are items at eachs talk pages at the moment and is suspect they are not on until sunday our time - however if i understand the sensitivity of tweaking i am leaving it to them... having ventured into the catholic project with a bit too much of a rushed enthusiasm today tagging category in the class space rather than NA - I hope my grevious blot on the projects talk pages can be fixed by a tweak! SatuSuro 15:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh I just remember now you helped with the things at wp vet science - maybe you might see my comment also at wiki project catholicism assessment page - it seems that NA at the class space keeps the tag clear of other issues but category in class does not close off the next line which shows up on 99.9 per cent of my tagging today at the catholic project articles. SatuSuro 15:42, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Apologies - clarity - I also notice SECisek is concerned below. My request to anyone who would listen ( I am trying to ask an Australian template whiz to check it out - but was trying once they were off ) was that I had tagged a considerable number of Project Catholicism category pages with category rather then NA in the class space. I was querying whether the coding in the template was tweakable to allow category to be the same as NA (and not have the next line assuming assesment) or whether that was not possible. I am assuming a project does not want to have category pages assessed, and that they are equivalent to the NA tag (or have I missed something along the line) I hope that explains the issue SatuSuro 03:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WIkiproject Kenoyim

WIll you help edit the project to make it acceptable please? The project is needed, but it will never get up because people don't know enough about the subject and are themselves heavily influenced by POV. I invite you to please examine the projects flagship article. Yhoshua Leib Gould If it is not neutral, well referenced, and the best article on the subject of an anti-Zionist Jewish leader on wikipedia, please support deletion. If it is, then compare it to other articles similar to it Moshe Hirsch, Dovid Weiss, etc. and you will clearly see the need for such a project. Also, please see the other article, Sighet (Hasidic dynasty) These are examples of the projects articles. BOth are good articles but would not get put up on wikiproject:Judaism because those editors do not know enough about the subject and are hostile towards it. I think the project should be allowed to get off the ground before it is deleted. Thank you. Shia1 20:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bus stop

I think for now it'd just be wise to ignore Bus stop's page. It doesn't really do any good for anyone, as he is blocked from disruptive editing, and it might just continue to entrench him in his belief that his actions are justifiable. Drumpler 21:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EndUN Userbox

Hi, you recently participated in the Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:DieWeisseRose/Userboxes/EndUN discussion. I have reluctantly submitted the closing statement by User:Tony Sidaway for deletion review. Please consider taking a look at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_July_1#User:DieWeisseRose.2FUserboxes.2FEndUN. Thanks. --DieWeisseRose 02:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your DYK nomination for Gerald of Sauve-Majeure was successful

Did you know? was updated. On June 30, 2007, a fact from the article Gerald of Sauve-Majeure, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 23:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

On July 3, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article José María Robles Hurtado, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adoption

Salut, John!

I haven't heard anything from you in ages—I'm assuming you can make your way around Wikipedia pretty well, now, and I know you've been contributing quite a bit (and very helpfully, too). Is there anything else I can help you with, or do you think you're good to go on your own? The Jade Knight 01:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fra Angelico

I have noticed that you have just rated this article as a B on the arts scale. Wondering why you had done this, I started to read it and discovered that (back in February) some miserable swine had deleted a section detailing 9 years of the good Friars life. This vandalism had been disguised by a very minor vandalism on the same day which had bbeen reversed. And not one of the numerous people that have added commas and brackets since then have noticed it was missing!

I'm going to take you to task over two things. You have just given a B rating on the Visual Arts scale to an article which was written by an expert in the field, is grammatically accurate, stylistically consistent (though a little old fashioned), quotes renowned authorities, cites all its sources, is well illustrated and well formatted.

If the the gap in the Biography is the reason that you rated this article a B, then I must ask why you didn't point the matter out on the talk page, so that it could be rectified? The information has been found and returned.

The ommission of a Box doesn't lower that standard of an article from an A to a B. This is plainly not a B article on the visual arts scale.

--Amandajm 00:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. With regards to the expertise with which the article is written, I think that it makes itself apparent. It's the reason why other editors do no more to it than dotting i's and crossing t's.

For some reason editors are usually happier about adding irrelevant chunks to good articles than doing real research and filling gaps in stubs or start class articles. I'm currently trying to divert interference from Architecture which is complete, to Architectural history which is seriously lacking and requires the ministrations of students with access to the latest ideas.

With regards to the assessment of Fra Angelico on the list of Saints,, I'm dubious about any list that places him in the "mid importance" rating, while the present example of a saint of "mid importance" is St Ignatius, founder of the Jesuits. Can this possibly be right?

I perceive Fra Angelico as high importance on the Art scale (not Top) and low importance as a saint. Depending on how one assesses him, I suppose. If you look at his following as a saint, then compared with many others of even local importance, he doesn't rate very highly, but if you look at his works as representing acts of divine inpspiration, created for the inspiration of others, then yes, he rates at mid-level.

To put it in a different way, if these were written works with which we are dealing, rather than painted works, then there is no question in my mind that would have been raised to the rank of Saint five hundred years ago.

This is the case in several instances- if the van Eyck's had written the Ghent Altarpiece and Grunewald had written the Isenheim Altarpiece, before which people with imflammatory diseases were laid for healing, then they too would be saints, because miracles (many miracles in the case of the Isenheim alatarpiece) have been attributed to their works, and who would doubt for an instant that they were religious visionaries?

I think in the light of the Holy Friar's beatification, the article needs a paragraph on his miracles. The artistic sceptics will not like it at all. Someone will then try to prove that he had a pedarastic relationship with Benozzo Gozzoli (and that he can be identified in a painting with the schoolmaster beating the bare bottom of a small boy) or that he was the real father of Piero della Francesca (father unknown which is why he is "della Francesca"). This is what people like to write about painters. (sigh)

--Amandajm 01:24, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I would be much obliged if you could track down any info of miracles etc. If you put it on the talk page, I'll incorporate it, either into the main, or into the Works articles.

Re Gozzoli et al, I was joking! no-one has actually come up with that yet, bbut I'm sure their is a psychoanalysis around somewhere that can be trotted out.

Have you been to St Mark's Convent? The first time I was there, I was just lucky to strike a quiet patch. I don't know quite how I managed to mislay the 19 other people I was with. But when I went up to the cells, there was no-one else there at all. It was extraordinary because there are usually tourists everywhere. For about 10 or 15 minutes I wandered from one cell to another. I had the "Transfiguration" all to myself, and it was overwhelming. I don't know why I was so fortunate, but I felt blessed.

--Amandajm 01:59, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Did you know? was updated. On 8 July 2007, a fact from the article Emygdius, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 11:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Council of Constantinople

Why did you tag this as unreferenced? (It had at least a dozen references, of all kinds.) Charles Matthews 06:59, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

John, thanks for the invite. I will do what I can for the WP:1.0 project - I have already proposed some suggestions to WP:LUTHER, and I will cull WP:X for some others.

I am getting back to doing some more intensive article writing. I wonder if you could look a Pennsylvania Ministerium for me and (a) offer any suggestions, (b) provide a quality assessment, and maybe (c) write one of those DYK hooks that you are so good at? Thanks in advance. Pastordavid 19:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Service award

Just to let you know, you qualify for this. This award is determined strictly by your time on Wikipedia and your edit count. Congrats! --BrokenSphere 00:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It goes on top of the awards list, of course. John Carter 23:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Cuthbert (Dungeons & Dragons)

Hi. I noticed you added the Wikiproject Saints template to the talk page for Saint Cuthbert (Dungeons & Dragons). Given that this is a fictional character, I'm not sure it's within the scope of said wikiproject. Assuming that you knew this, and didn't think he was the patron saint of D&D, I also added the template to Saint Kargoth. You may also want to put the fictional saints Saint Ceril, Saint Benedor, Saint Bane, and Saint Eliador on your watchlist.--Robbstrd 22:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as sarcastic. I'm pretty neutral as to whether the tag remains or not. Not finding anything about fictional saints upon scanning the wikiproject page, I wasn't sure if they were within the scope, so I thought I'd let you know about the others just in case ( also added the to Kargoth's page).--Robbstrd 00:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pennsylvania Ministerium

Did you know? was updated. On 11 July 2007, a fact from the article Pennsylvania Ministerium, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 11:27, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Japanese mythology/Assessment

Hello Warlord. I just deleted the two unused assessment pages for you, but wanted to let you know that there are now two red links at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Japanese_mythology/Assessment#Worklist that need attention of one kind or another. Best ×Meegs 12:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paul Couturier

On 12 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Paul Couturier, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 10:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Evolutionary biology/Assessment

In June you created Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Evolutionary biology/Assessment: I've been asked to move it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Evolutionary biology/Assessment which was created more recently. The latter page only shows one edit, but may need deleted to allow the move, so I can arrange that. Any comments or concerns? ... dave souza, talk 13:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that's it done now. .. dave souza, talk 13:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Morgellons article marked as needing immediate attention

Hi,

You recently left this note on the talk page of Morgellons. I could not find any discussion of the reasons for the note, perhaps I am not looking in the proper place. Would you please elaborate on this so it can be addressed? Thanks in advance,Ward20 17:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest and clarification.Ward20 17:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delusional Parasitosis

DP is a well-known medical condition, formally classified as a psychosis; why would you flag it as a "Rational Skepticism" article? It is not pseudoscience in any way. I see no reason not to remove this tag, since you have placed no such tag on other psychoses such as Schizophrenia or Paranoia. Dyanega 18:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Wikiprojects

Thank you for your effort in making me the list Chaza1000 19:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New template

John, you see enough of these articles, that I thought you might find a template for clergy/theologians helpful. I created one at Template:Infobox clergy that I believe will be helpful for clergy, theologians, and others in the church for whom the "saint infobox" might be a little bit loaded (for example, I've noticed Lutherans don't really like to have "saint" on anything - crabby old Lutherans). You can see it in use at Samuel Simon Schmucker. Pastordavid 23:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] July 13th, 2007 DYK

On 13 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Emma Crawford, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Andrew c ^[talk] 00:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Kittenwar1.gif

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[edit] DYK

On 13 July 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Sydney James Kirkby, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 20:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

---

Barbaro family page

Hi John, I saw your comment about the Barbaro family being extinct. There is confusion in the way that statement is written. First, there were several branches to the Barbaro family. Branches that were poor and not able to inscribe themselves into the register of nobility that required a financial backing to give weight to their title/titles are known as "Barnabotti" (the fallen patricians). Of the branches that were wealthy and survived, there are 3: 2 classified as Venetian and one classified as Maltese. Only one Venetian branch died out. The branch known as "San Vidal". A second Venetian branch known as "Albergo" still exists and the Maltese branch known as "San Giorgio" also still exists. I suggest that you go look at a guide book of Venice, such as Baedeker's Venice, that has a good map of Venice. You will discover that there are two seperate Palazzi for the San Vidal and the Albergo branches. The Palazzi of the San Vidal are located in the San Marco section of Venice on the Grand Canal in the neighborhood caled "San Vidal". Across the Grand Canal is the section known as Dosoduro in the neighborhood known as San Vio(Vito) there are two more Barbaro palazzi. One is still called Palazzo Barbaro today and the second right next to it which was also a Barbaro palace is now called Palazzo Dario after it was sold. These two palaces were for the Albergo line. You will find this information on any good tourst map.

[edit] project evaluations

I noticed that you are adding evaluations to Rational Skepticism articles. Here are three tags I just added: Psychic‎, Spiritualism, and True-believer syndrome. If you would, please evaluate them too. Thanks. Bubba73 (talk), 00:01, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It would be better if you put your comments on the article's talk page rather than /comments, because no one more people will know to look for them there. Bubba73 (talk), 01:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Also Extraterrestrial hypothesis. Bubba73 (talk), 06:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

and Jacques Vallée. Bubba73 (talk), 06:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

and Phoenix Lights. Bubba73 (talk), 05:03, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject James Bond

WikiProject James Bond:Collaboration of the fortnight (two weeks)

The new collaboration for this fortnight is (July 14, 2007 - July 28, 2007) is Goldfinger (film) passed to GA status early. While you are free to work on this article because it still is out Collaboration May I suggest you work on Dr. No (film) Which was out first collaboration but has yet to make GA Status.

SpecialWindler talk 01:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Cambodia

Hey John,

Thanks again for helping us to set up article assessments - you are a gentleman and a Wikipedian. After a bit of work I think I've finally cleared the backlog of quality assessments. We have several quite good articles in there - all thanks to other editors and projects of course. However, in the category Category:Unassessed-Class Cambodia articles I've got a little group of 15 Cambodia-related lists that remain stubbornly uncategorised. I realise this is because I tagged them as List class - and we currently don't have a list class. Any chance you could do that voodoo that you do so well and create a list-class category for us? Or tell me how to do it. I don't have the faintest idea how to go about it. Cheers, Paxse 11:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that John, now I might get to see a beautiful zero in the unassessed article column :) Paxse 15:39, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Treehouse of Horror?

Good morning, Warlord! I'm a little baffled at your adding "Treehouse of Horror VII to the WikiProject Neopaganism. I didn't see anything related to Neopaganism in the article. Were you perchance trying to add it to something else?
Regards,
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 16:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Nayland W. Blake

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Talk:Nayland W. Blake, by Dev920 (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Talk:Nayland W. Blake fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

article deleted

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[edit] Mythology tags on Hinduism articles

I have noticed that you have been adding mythology tags to many Hinduism articles, including some core concepts, such as Ishta-deva, which is a technical term and does not seem to me to have anything to do with myth. Some articles which deal explicitly with stories of demons and deities, such as Mitra-Varuna, probably are appropriate to tag as myth since they are often discussed as such even in Hindu sources. I am sure your efforts are well-intended, but characterizing any topic in Hinduism as mythology may be considered offensive to some people. Can you help me understand the basis for your thinking as to what articles to tag in this manner? I would also suggest that you get more agreement on talk pages prior to adding such tags if the article does not explicitly include mythical stories. Should mythology tags be placed on most of the Christianity articles? Buddhipriya 19:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Judith Hird

John, I have a question about this stub. It doesn't seem to match up with any facts that I have. If you check out Elizabeth Platz, she was ordained two years earlier as a Lutheran pastor in the Lutheran Church in America (1970), and the American Lutheran Church ordained a woman at the end of 1970. That doesn't seem to jive with the Judith Hird claim that she was the first female Lutheran pastor. Am I missing something? Pastordavid 11:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I think I found the issue. In the Lutheran church, their are is only one ordained order of ministry - the ministry of word and sacrament. We do not differentiate between rectors/vicars/etc as other traditions do, and we don't ordain to the diaconate. The source that I found here calls her the first female "chief pastor". I can only assume that they mean either a solo pastor at a one clergy congregation, or the senior pastor of a multi-clergy congregation. Either way, I'm not sure that (a) its easily verifiable ("this day in..." types of sources are notoriously unreliable) or that (b) the distinction they are making is a real one - that is, in the Lutheran churches, the women that preceded her were pastors in a 100% equal way. The type of notable difference they are looking for here would be better served by talking about April Ulring Larson, the first woman elected as a synodical bishop among American Lutherans (in 1992 in the ELCA). Pastordavid 17:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest tagging it with {{db-author}}, or perhaps a {{prod}}. But, I do want to say thanks for working on adding Lutheranism stubs, please don't get the impression that it is unappreciated. Pastordavid 14:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reorus Torkillus

John, good find on this one - I had passed right over him. I am, however, having difficulty figuring out how to descibe his position. He is not the first Lutheran pastor to come to North America (see Rasmus Jensen). Nor is he the first pastor in America - since there was no such thing until 1776. Perhaps it should read "the first permanent (or maybe called, or maybe settled) pastor in North America" or something similar. Pastordavid 17:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holy cow...

... you work fast! Some of your edits are a second apart. I have a question: do categories need to be alphabetized? Is it part of a guideline I'm not familiar with? – Sam 23:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wikitruth: Tobias Conradi did not use 22 or so socks

this is wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_sanction_noticeboard&diff=147002852&oldid=147002210

read the definition of Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry

also: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:84.190.36.219&diff=147220500&oldid=146991094

sorry for being so precise, but IMO precision matters in an encyclopedia. I know a lot of the admins involved in corruption do not care about precision and justice and truth.

84.190.2.29 13:21, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

While technically true, please note that I was clearly making a bit of a joke, and that mild distortions of fact are generally to be expected in such cases. And, while I agree with you about precision in the encyclopedia, that page is not itself part of the encyclopedia. I do care about justice and truth. I believe, based on the references to obscenity and other regular violations of the standards of civility raised against the individual in question, that there may well be sufficient case for this individual to be found to have violated the standards of wikipedia, possibly many times. Attempting to excuse that misconduct on the basis of earlier misconduct by others rarely if ever works in a court of justice, and I have no reason to believe that it would work here either. But, as a non-admin, I have no say in the final decision one way or another. John Carter 14:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)