Talk:Blue

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This article uses British English dialect and spelling. Some terms that are used in it differ from, or are not used in, American English. For more information, see American and British English differences. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

[edit] Why is water blue?

Why is water blue? --AxelBoldt

Because of the tail of an absorption at around 750 nm absorbs the red. The absorption is an overtone of the O-H stretching vibration.

Interestingly, heavy water (D2O) is colourless, because the absorption band is at a longer wavelength (~950 nm). -- DrBob

I thought it was because the sky was blue and the water is just reflecting the colour of the sky. --Cap 11:16, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Despite some doubts over this, this source appears to confirm the absorption spectrum explanation http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html#blue. I have added the link to the page under 'External links', reasoning that if we can discuss 'why water appears blue' in the article it seems appropriate to cite a reference 62.252.224.17 20:53, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC) </Screws up degree in Theoretical Physics and throws it in the bin>

[edit] Blue laws

"In German, "blue" means "drunk"."

Is it possible that this is connected to the origin of the term "blue laws"? I read something on encyclopedia.com about "blue paper they were written on," but that assertion seems asinine at best. A linguistic connection to German immegrants just feels more probable.--BlackGriffen

What are "blue laws"? Maybe they should be mentioned on the main article as well. --AxelBoldt

Good point. "Morals laws" governing alcohol, gambling, sexually-related materials, etc.

"the term most likely derived from an eighteenth-century usage of the word "blue" as a disparaging reference to something perceived as "rigidly moral" (a "bluenose," for example, is one who advocates a rigorous moral code"

http://www.snopes.com/language/colors/bluelaws.htm

Food for thought, --Alan D

Another example of that would be blue blood. I have to wonder about the etymology of the phrases, though.--BlackGriffen

I have always heard that blue laws got their name because they were initially published on blue paper. I think the German derivation is out, unless you know of any Germans who use the literal translation!JHK

There are only "blaue Briefe" (blue letters) in German. Those are unpleasant letters parents get from school. --Vulture

[edit] German stuff should not be here

In German, "blue" means "drunk".

Technical quibble: This is the English-language Wikipedia. German usage is not germane. (Is it really "blau" means drunk, or "blue" means drunk? If the latter, we have a case for including this in English-language Wikipedia.)

"blau" is drunk, not "blue"

I'm therefore removing the German-language info from Blue

[edit] Blue movie reference removed

-- Somebody earlier removed this from page (why?) -- the following may make more sense in response to this. --

A "Blue movie" is a slang term for a pornographic? film. The term derives from the poor colour balancing (due to cheap production techniques) used in films during the 1970s, resulting in a bluish tone to the skin of the performers.

I think this term goes back at least to the 1920's! OED?

[edit] Other references

Quoted directly from the OED blue adj:

" b. Intoxicated. slang (chiefly U.S.).

1818 M. L. WEEMS Drunkard's Looking Glass (ed. 6) 4 The patient goes by a variety of nicknames..such as boozy, groggy, blue, damp. 1860 [see sense 10]. 1945 BAKER Austral. Lang. ix. 166 A man who is drunk is said to be..blue."

" 9. colloq. a. Indecent, obscene. Cf. BLUE n. 14 and BLUENESS 4.

1864 HOTTEN Slang Dict. 78 Blue, said of talk that is smutty or indecent. 1935 Economist 16 Mar. 584/2 The songs sounded not vulgar exactly, but..`a bit on the blue side'. 1959 Spectator 14 Aug. 180/1 It meant that the theatre-going public were deprived of..outstanding contemporary plays, yet allowed to visit `blue' variety shows. 1965 Punch 2 June 799/1 He also wanted to see a blue movie."

From www.britannica.com blue law:

"The name may derive from Samuel A. Peters' General History of Connecticut (1781), which purported to list the stiff Sabbath regulations at New Haven, Conn.; the work was printed on blue paper. A more probable derivation is based on an 18th-century usage of the word blue meaning "rigidly moral" in a disparaging sense. S"

Now, considering that english is a Germanic language, and that the number of German immegrants was second only to the number of Irish, don't you find it more probable that the use came from the German term for drunk? There is, after all, a more than casual link between drunkenness and obscenity.--BlackGriffen

[edit] Proposal to end debate

Put the usage section on another page. How about here. Each color can have its own subpage of Color Talk. I bet you're green with envy that you didn't think of this first. I hope it doesn't make you see red though.

Re English language wiki -- I'm sorry, this is one of the most asinine things I've read. I'm generally one of the people who screams for English-language as the focus, but there should be absolutely NO objection to valid questions on (and uses of) etymology. Edit sensibly, please. JHK

I see that Red and Green also have colloquial usage sections. Perhaps that's why someone undid my move.

I'd rather see all the usage togther in one article; or, better links so someone could read each color-usage article. I'd hate to think I'm missing lavender or brown (gay and nazi?) connotations. Our language is so colorful, it deserves better than a piecemeal treatment. Ed Poor

[edit] Hemophilia

I'm cutting the mention of hemophilia; if someone has a reference to back it, please provide the cite. As far as I know, the gene for hemophilia got into European royalty with Queen Victoria, who is believed to have carried it due to a mutation. And who did a good job of marrying her many children and grandchildren into every royal house in Europe. Vicki Rosenzweig

[edit] Bluenose

I'm wondering if the use of the word "bluenose" to indicate someone who advocates rigorous moral standards could be related to the 1864 book by Robert M. Ballantyne called The Lifeboat, in which there is a Captain Bluenose. Seems the Captain was a "water-drinker" - said as if such a thing were bad.

Does anyone know how many song use the word blue in it?

"We all live in a blue submarine"...? --Ihope127 16:27, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More info needed

We need a paragraph informing why blue is more comfortable for the human eye than other colors (some computer programs have configurable blue backgrounds (mostly text/program editors) to alleviate eye-fatigue). --Miles 17:05, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Blue = Male

does anyone know why blue is a symbol for maleness and pink is symbolic of femaleness? where does this come from? --Cap 01:48, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I seem to recall that pink is associated with females due to the association of menstrual blood; over time, this was toned down until it reached the modern pink. I can't find anything right now that can corroborate that, however. As for blue, I have no idea. --David Breakey 00:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

http://www.oldwivestales.net/article1022.html might be a place to start checking, although I disagree that pink as an association for girls was just a marketing scheme. --David Breakey 01:05, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Google also seems to have something to say about this. You may also want to try the search I tried out. Have fun! There's a lot of potential material! So far, the only commonality is a lot of disagreement. --David Breakey 01:20, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The Virgin Mary seems almost always to be depicted in blue, interestingly.

Blue is thought of as male because in old days, boys were considered more valueable than girls, and blue-colored oblects were expensive and blue was thought to scare away evil spirits. 66.205.108.8 01:49, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, in Spanish we have a colour called Purísima (lit. Very Pure) which is actually a kind of light blue associated with the Virgin Mary. 193.146.45.126 18:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

These are just inventions!

The particular blue that seems most commonly associated with the Virgin Mary is Ultramarine, which was made from lapis lazuli a long time ago and was very expensive. My source for this is Victoria Finlay's Color: A Natural History of the Palette, ISBN 0812971426. — AnnaKucsma (Talk to me!) 14:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

In Russian, if someone is gay, they call them blue. i.e. He's a blue boy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.216.210.2 (talk) 12:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

In the Victorian period, baby boys and girls were dressed alike until age two or so, but reformers thought this unacceptable. They devised a color-coding system for distinguishing gender. Blue, the color of patience and the Virgin Mary, was assigned for girls. Pink, a derivant of the aggressive, battle-like red, was assigned to boys. This system was used for a while (you can catch mention of it in books from that period), but after several years it was switched around, which is what we have today. — Emiellaiendiay 20:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of terms associated with the color blue

affection, aristocracy, calm, cleanliness, cold, communication, confidence, conservatism, depression, femininity, harmony, healing, hearing, honesty, ice, knowledge, life, listening, love, loyalty, morality, ocean, order, peace, philosophy, purity, quality, quiet, sadness, sea, security, sky, solitude, soothing, speech, spirituality, stability, technology, tranquility, trust, truth, unity, water, willpower, wisdom, youth

At least some of these should be merged into the article.

Well, come up with a reliable source and put them in. — AnnaKucsma (Talk to me!) 14:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Songs using the word blue

Must this be here, under music? There are very many songs which "use" the word blue. Unless people think that an extensive list of these songs is necessary on this page, I don't think it should be here. Another Loophole 02:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Section to make into its own article

I know this is a little premature, but I want to know which section should be put in an article of its own once the article gets over 32KB. Georgia guy 22:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Now the article has reached 32KB, I think it's about time to decide which section to do this with. Georgia guy 15:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It's now over 32KB, and I still don't know what section should be made into its own article. Please try to find out before it gets to be at least 64KB. Georgia guy 01:40, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Now, it has reaced 40KB and still I don't know what the best section to make into its own article is. Anyone aware yet?? Please try to find a good section to make into its own article before the article reaches 50KB. Georgia guy 17:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Probable spam note removed from etymology section

I removed the following statement:

Blue is also the most spectacular running group with Bay Area Fit.

It was in a rather random place in etymology. It apparently has nothing to do with the etymology of the word, and seems like sneaky spam addition to me. Runa27 19:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] focus on the color

Just compare this article to the aricle on 'magenta'. Blue is a color and so is magenta. Why is there so less information on the color itself, its shades, CMYK values etc. Maybe there should be two articles. blue and blue_color. 'Color Wikiproject' team, follow up.... Charles.2345 16:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about blue

How come in a few foreign languages, blue and sky blue are given separate equally basic terms, while in English they are not?? Georgia guy 22:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong question. There's no reason why all languages should have the same set of basic colour terms. (In many languages blue and green are the same basic colour.) 91.105.13.48 (talk) 13:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Connection with homosexualism

It should be added, that blue is often used as a symbol of homosexualism. For example, see Blue Oyster Bar. What do you think?

[edit] Purple?

Why are there shades of purple on this page being passed off as shades of blue? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.240.68.88 (talk) 22:43, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

I'd been wondering the same myself. Of course, when it comes to colour groupings things aren't always black and white ... shades of grey abound ... or in this case shades of indigo. One should not be too surprised to find a few shades of purple in amongst what are supposed to be shades of blue. Different people will draw the line differently. What may look blue to one person may look purple to another. Indeed even to the individual the same colour will look different depending on such things as lighting and context. To see what I mean have a look at this.

Notice how purple that centre above band looks. Now compare that to the following.

Notice how blue that centre above band looks. You've probably guessed what I'm getting at. These are both the same colour: Hex:310062 (called "dark indigo" on this page). So there is to be expected some degree of overlap. It may make perfect sense to say that some shades of purple are also shades of blue. However, we've got to draw the line somewhere. Where it's drawn now seems far to reddish to me.

I'd say that we could probably keep the following shades.

Periwinkle (Lavender Blue) (Pastel Indigo) (Hex: #CCCCFF) (RGB: 204, 204, 255)
Bright Indigo (Crayola Indigo) (Hex: #4F69C6) (RGB: 79, 105, 198)
Medium Slate Blue (web color) (Hex: #7B68EE) (RGB: 123, 104, 138)
Persian Indigo (Hex: #32127A) (RGB: 50, 18, 122)
Midnight Blue (web color) (Hex: #191970) (RGB: 25, 25, 112)

These ones would be borderline.

Indigo (Electric Indigo) (Hex: #6600FF) (RGB: 102, 0, 255)
Pigment Indigo (web color Indigo) (Hex: #4B0082) (RGB: 75, 0, 130)
Dark Indigo (Hex: #310062) (RGB: 49, 0, 98)

But these ones seem far to reddish to me.

Lavendula (Vietnamese Lavender) (Pale Indigo) (Hex: #E6E6FA) (RGB: 230, 230, 250)
Deep Lavender (web color Medium Purple) (Hex: #9370DB) (RGB: 147, 112, 219)
Lavender (Hex: #B57EDC) (RGB: 181, 126, 220)
Deep Indigo (web color Blue-Violet) (Hex: #8A2BE2) (RGB: 138, 43, 226)

J i m p 06:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going ahead and removing lavendula, lavender, deep lavender & deep indigo. J i m p 02:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

As the one who created the shades of blue color comparison chart I would like to say that I really like your chart that you created above showing how the color color Dark Indigo looks different when surrounded a bluish as opposed to a purplish color. I think it is very clever and informative. Best wishes, Keraunos 02:59, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Err...Color?

Uh, this article has both spellings of the word "color", almost right above each other. AND I QUOTE, with British spellings in italic, and American in bold:

"The English language commonly uses "blue" to refer to any colour from navy blue to cyan. The complementary colour of blue in color science is yellow (on the HSV color wheel), while in art the complementary color to blue is considered to be orange (based on the Munsell color wheel)."

Could someone fix this? (Preferably with spellings commonly accepted on both sides of the Atlantic, if possible...)

209.180.232.189 23:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

There isn't a spelling that pleases everyone, but the rule for an article like this is to keep the kind of spelling which was first used (where it was possible to tell), and to treat every change between "US" and "UK" spelling after that as mischief, and every new text that uses the "wrong" one as something to be corrected. Looking over the history, it has gone through phases.

So...the very first entry is here. It uses colour, which is what the article mostly uses today.

I've begun correcting it, but it's a laborious process, since each link needs to be carefully kept working, and some things (e.g. quotes, names of organisations) are not to be changed. After a while I lost the will to live, but I've done a bit. Notinasnaid 23:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extraneous Information

Removed some of the section on blue earth river because it contains little to no information on the color blue and is simply a extended reference. I tried to make it more along the likes of the entry on the Nile river —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.66.101.130 (talk) 23:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Carolina Blue

Can someone help me add Carolina Blue to the spectrum. It is Pantone 278. I am trying to put together an article on it as well. http://www.licensing.unc.edu/New/Stylesheet/WelcomeStylesheet.htm is the reference.

What spectrum do you mean? It should not have a swatch with RGB colors, if that's what you mean, because Pantone colors aren't RGB. Notinasnaid 16:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Further reduction in the article?

Continuing the discussion from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blue in human culture, is there reason to include the environment and place name sections in this article as it's currently constituted? I don't see how they can add to anyone's understanding of "blue" as a concept or symbol. What's the significance of the facts that there are things called blueberries and that there's a blue parkway? Dekimasuよ! 13:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I have made various changes; I think it would also be helpful to discuss the rationale behind the ordering of the sections in the article. Dekimasuよ! 13:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colour vs. Color

Relatively minor arguement, the article just switches back and forth ocassionaly.68.185.199.75 15:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The article should not switch back and forth - the original spelling has been established as the British or Commonwealth spelling, and per Wikipedia's rules about variations of English it should stay that way. Nihiltres 19:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I changed one color to colour in a main link. The other colors are in titles that should not be changed. Dicklyon 20:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Despise British Writing

People spell Color wrong! Color!!! How do people spell it wrong!!!!! It's color! How simple!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.227.202 (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia accepts both spellings. --h2g2bob (talk) 00:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention that the English would probably insist that we're using the wrong spellings. — AnnaKucsma (Talk to me!) 14:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The English were around first. The language is named after them. It's their language, and therefore colour should be the correct spelling. Amenojin (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't feed the trolls. Colour, Color, who cares? They are the same word, and everyone knows that they are interchangable. No use fueling a pointless flame. DaRkAgE7 (talk) 23:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ice Blue?

Which color is also known as "ice blue?" I was just wondering. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.16.151.77 (talk) 02:01, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Some shade of Cyan? Capuchin 10:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chicken colors

In the "Symbolism: section, The chicken lady changed

When a dog or cat is described as having a "blue" coat...

When a dog, cat or chicken is described as having a "blue" coat

The change doesn't really sit well with me, but then, I'm a city girl and The chicken lady's user page doesn't make it look like she's here to vandalize. Anyone have a source? — AnnaKucsma (Talk to me!) 14:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Significance" section

Much of this is probably nonsense - I deleted one sentence that clearly was. Death does not turn a body blue; cold does. Someone who burns to death is not blue; that's a ridiculous statement. Moreover, it's not NPOV to call death "morbid". These statements of thought in this section need some kind of citation, or they're unsourced statements just like any other on Wikipedia, and need to be removed. XINOPH | TALK 02:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership

The Dow company owns blue and this is a key part of blue's impact on society. Please do not remove this section. Feel free to alter the terminology to make it more legally correct. Please also navigate to the link to verify that Dow owns blue. This is an indisputable fact that should not be hidden from public eyes. I hope that the Dow company isn't the one trying to hide their ownership. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.34.120.71 (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The link does not say that they own blue; it merely says that they've trademarked that particular blue color of a particular class of product. It just means that someone else can't make that product look confusingly similar. Not worth a mention, really, unless you can find an independent source discussing it. Dicklyon 22:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that the words "The color Blue is a Trademark of The Dow Chemical Company" imply that they have a hold on blue, not just blue styrofoam. Considering this is an example of companies trying to own something that they have no place owning (a color or at least the words describing the color) this is definitely worth considering and it is definitely part of what blue is. The environment in which we perceive things may be legal, social, ethical, or whatever. In this case, they are using copyright law to make blue their own. I think it's definitely worth a mention, and, hopefully, some enhancement to correct the terminology...(no, it is not owned but others are restricted from calling things blue). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.248.30 (talk) 09:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, this is the sort of thing people should discuss. A company swoops in and uses copyright laws, sits idly on the sidelines, and then uses this as corporate leverage as appropriate. Even attempting to own "blue" (or any other color) is a trick. These facts don't need hiding and they're certainly relevant when we think about what blue means to us all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.248.30 (talk) 09:27, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

So find a reliable source that talks about companies copyrighting colors, and report what it says. Dicklyon 15:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I have a reliable source talking about companies copyrighting colors...Dow's website. I did report what it says. A friend of mine found that originally by searching through Dow company specifications and pointed out the webpage to me. It is verifiable, my factual sentence is NPOV, and it is directly-related to the page it is on. You want me to find someone talking about it...why? Does a journalist need to comment on this fact to make it true? No. Leaving it out there will help the Wikipedia community by providing a stub for members of the community to correct or enhance. Taking it out because it isn't in a NYTimes article is shortsighted. Please leave this section intact. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.34.120.71 (talk) 20:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like you need to re-read WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:OR. You reported something about ownership, which was not mentioned on the page you linked. As to the idea of trademarking a color, you can read about it in, of all places, wikipeida: Colour trademark. Dicklyon 21:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. Thank you for pointing out the existence of the Colour Trademark page. I just wanted this fact to be available to the community and I think that will do the trick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.34.120.71 (talk) 21:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know it was there, either. But googling for color trademark found it. Dicklyon 21:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek?

I can't find the interlanguage link to the Greek page. The BOT hasn't picked this up yet either. Any ideas? Bruxism (talk) 03:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] vandalism

I've noticed this page gets a lot of vandalism... can we get this protected? DaRkAgE7 (talk) 21:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It is also green, orange and blue

Under the etymology section after talking about the proto-germanic origin it said: "It can also be green or orange occasionally (blue). " which I couldn't understand at all particularly "occaisionally (blue)". I think this was meant to imply that Bla could be used for other colours, but as it was unclear which, I put: "but it can refer to other colours".

If anyone knows the origin of this text perhaps they could amend appropriately. Bugsy (talk) 11:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

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