Template talk:Afd

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:Afd page.
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Template:Afd is permanently protected from editing, as it is a heavily used or visible template. Substantial changes should be proposed here, and made by administrators if the proposal is uncontroversial, or has been discussed and is supported by consensus. Use {{editprotected}} to attract the attention of an administrator in such cases. Any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes, categories or interwiki links.

Part of this discussion has been archived. Its conclusion have led to the following template. Some of the reasoning that went into this template is listed below. This template should be included on pages using the {{subst:vfd}} tag, to prevent strain on the servers. This will cause the code of the template, as it is then, to be included in the code of the article. This template does not have full functionality on talk pages, but really should not be used on talk pages. Consensus on this template seem to be that the template should be as small as possible, and should include only the bare minimum of information. The template exists to warn readers and editors alike that the page they are reading is currently under heavy scrutiny. Additional text has been suggested and been removed many times. The first line is in bold, as it contains the primary point of the template. The template features a hidden link. The period behind the words deletion policy links to [[Template:vfd]]. It’s purpose is to make the ‘what links here’ function work, so people can find articles that have been tagged by this template. The wording ‘is being considered’ as opposed to wording like ‘is being nominated for’ is used, so as not to imply that ‘’voting’’ (as opposed to discussion) is the primary means of deciding whether or not to delete the page. The wording ‘Please vote on and discuss the matter.’, as opposed to ‘Please discuss and vote on the matter’ is used, though not through consensus. One side felt discussing should precede voting, while the other side feels the flow of the second suggestion doesn’t flow smoothly, as though it reads: ‘Please discuss (on) and vote on the matter.’. The link 'this article’s entry' links directly to its entry. A red link then means that such an entry has not been created, and thus, no votes have been cast. When adding the template to a page, please create an entry on the VFD page, and justify your vote. If the template is included without a vote, the impression is that the template may have been added erroneously. The link 'This article’s entry' is in bold, to catch the eye. The template invites editing (it’s obviously better to create a good article than to delete a bad one). ‘, but please do not blank, merge, or move this article, nor remove this notice, while the discussion is in progress.’ – Previous versions the the template included a warning against ‘defacing this template’, because apparently, many people would deface the templates on individual pages. This warning was protested against, as it was unique to this template and did not assume good faith, and it was subsequently removed. The link to the 'Guide to ‘’Votes for Deletion’’' links to that guide, which explains voting etiquette. The link is partially italic for clarification. The font of the template has been reduced in size, to 95%. This does not seem to reduce readability (as <small>-tags do) but does reduce the bulk to the template. The background colour of the template is now a rather heavy gray, to accommodate LCD-screens, which render very light colours as white.

Archives

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Contents 1 Proposal to include {{oldafdfull}} boilerplate text 2 Edit request 3 Extra line break 4 Oldafdfull feature broken 5 Wording or link incorrect 6 Template mangled

[edit] Proposal to include {{oldafdfull}} boilerplate text

When closing AfDs that do not end in deletion, administrators are supposed to add the {{oldafdfull}} template to the talk page. To facilitate this task, I propose to add the following line to this template before the "End of AfD message" comment:

<!-- For administrator use only: {{oldafdfull|page={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{{1|a}}}|{{{1|b}}}|{{{1}}}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}}}|date={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}} {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTHNAMEGEN}} {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTDAY}}|result='''keep'''}} -->

If my very limited knowledge of MediaWiki syntax is correct, this should produce something like:

 <!-- Please do not remove or change this AfD message until the issue is settled -->
 {{AfDM|page=Bad Article|date=2007 November 11|substed=yes}}
 <!-- For administrator use only: {{oldafdfull|page=Bad Article|date=2007 November 11|result='''keep'''}} -->
 <!-- End of AfD message, feel free to edit beyond this point -->

When closing the AfD as "keep", the administrator would edit the article page, cut the already filled-out {{oldafdfull}} text, delete the rest of the AfD message and paste the {{oldafdfull}} text to the talk page. Only the "result" parameter would need to be edited as appropriate. What do you think? Sandstein (talk) 17:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

There is now a testing implementation at Template:Afd/sandbox and an example of the template's output at User:Sandstein/Temp03. Sandstein (talk) 06:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

In the absence of opposition, I have now implemented this feature. Sandstein (talk) 06:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I have (hopefully) improved this nice addition by changing the date to a linked date, making it compatible with the different date formats and the preferences of users. If this is done in error or otherwise gives problems, please revert me and slap me with a trout. Fram (talk) 10:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edit request

{{editprotected}} There is an extra pair of right braces, as can be seen with my pasting of the oldafdfull template here: [1]. I have highlighted in red what I believe to be the extra braces in the text of the template below. Please remove them:

<!-- Please do not remove or change this AfD message until the issue is settled --> {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{{1|a}}}|{{{1|b}}}||{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifexist:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}|<!-- The nomination page for this article already existed when this tag was added. If this was because the article had been nominated for deletion before, and you wish to renominate it, please replace "page={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}" with "page={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}} (2nd nomination)" below before proceeding with the nomination. -->}}}}{{AfDM|page={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{{1|a}}}|{{{1|b}}}|{{{1}}}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}}}|date={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}} {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTHNAMEGEN}} {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTDAY}}|substed=yes{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>ns:0}}}} <!-- For administrator use only: {{oldafdfull|page={{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>#ifeq:{{{1|a}}}|{{{1|b}}}|{{{1}}}|{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>PAGENAME}}}}|date=[[{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTYEAR}}-{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTMONTH}}-{{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>CURRENTDAY}}]]}} |result='''keep'''}} --> <!-- End of AfD message, feel free to edit beyond this point --> <noinclude> {{template doc}}<!-- Add categories, documentation, and interwiki links to the /doc subpage, not here! --> </noinclude> The Evil Spartan (talk) 01:51, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• I think this was fixed yesterday in this edit by Yamamoto Ichiro. I came here to report the same thing and found your posting, went to go fix it myself, couldn't find it in the template code, and then saw it in the history. Since it's subst:ed it will remain in old AfDs. --MCB (talk) 07:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Seems fixed. Re-enable editprotected if needed. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Twas my error. I have reintroduced my change to the date, minus the erroneous curly brackets (the ones highlighted were indeed the incorrect ones). It should be better now. Fram (talk) 15:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Extra line break

{{editprotected}}

Could someone delete the line break between the end of the template and the noinclude tag? This causes a break in the transcluded template which leave a gap between it and any other templates on an article. Templates should be flush with each other. Chris Cunningham (talk) 11:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing it out. – Luna Santin (talk) 12:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oldafdfull feature broken

I have removed the code for pregeneration of Oldafdfull templates because the migration to the new preprocessor seems to have broken this feature. See my post about this on Meta. Does someone who understands code better than I do have a solution? Sandstein (talk) 12:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a horrible mess. I've been closing AFd's today, and I actually have to type all the oldafdfull's in everytime. That's worse than all those sodding extra close braces from the fram thing last week. Can't this just be reverted to some version that worked? JERRY ^talk _contribs 03:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I would imagine not, because the template has been substed onto the AfD page. Due to the code change of the preprocessor, there is no version that works that I am aware of. Sandstein (talk) 06:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The new preprocessor doesn't allow code inside html comments to be evaluated, Tim (the big boss) said it's non-negotiable. _→AzaToth 08:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. Any objections to me integrating the pregenerated oldafdfull code as a small-text notice directly into Template:AfDM, then? Sandstein (talk) 11:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

That would be the way... you could make the text the same color as the background of the template if you wanted to be really fancy about it. JERRY ^talk _contribs 12:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I've been bold and done it. Without hiding the text, though, or many admins may never even know of the existence of this feature. We could do that later if confused users try to use the oldafdfull code themselves. Sandstein (talk) 12:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed with an ugly template hack: replacing <!-- with {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>lessthan}}!-- allows the contents of the comment to be evaluated when the template is substed. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! It turns out my attempt at generating the code in {{AfDM}} was unsuccessful, but having the code in the comments is more elegant anyway. Sandstein (talk) 14:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording or link incorrect

This template says
"Please share your thoughts on the matter at this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page."
There will not be anything about it on that link. The wording either could say find the Afd on one of the days Afd list for that page or remove the link all together. SunCreator (talk) 01:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the template is not working right in your browser. In the rendered template, "this article's entry" is a wikilink to the actual AfD discussion for the article. Are you not seeing that in your browser? --MCB (talk) 01:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I see that clearly and it works. But I'm saying the wording on the Articles for deletion page is not saying what it's linking to. Go to a page under Afd, Kinchan no Kasoh Taisho will do, now using that link 'Articles for deletion' navigate your way to the 'Kinchan no Kasoh Taisho' article Afd discussion. I think you will find it almost impossible. It seems that the template is using old wording as it seem in the past all Afd's where on one page, that is no longer the case, as there is a page for each day, so would be nice to review or remove such outdated link/wording. SunCreator (talk) 15:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, OK, I see what you mean. I think we could fix that by having "considered for deletion" in the first sentence link to WP:AFD; leave "deletion policy" linked to WP:DP, and change the wording of the second sentence from "this article's entry on the Articles for deletion page" to "this article's discussion page" which would link to the actual article's AfD. That way there would be links to AFD, DP, and the actual article's AfD, all in the template. Here's a first attempt: User:MCB/proposedafdm. --MCB (talk) 17:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I like your proposal, but I'm not sure it's necessary to link directly to WP:AFD at all. It's likely to mislead new users, and of course, AFD is already linked from deletion policy. Superm401 - Talk 13:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

"This article's discussion page" sounds like it means the article talk page, and if I saw such wording in a link that where I'd expect it would lead. Perhaps "nomination page" or "deletion discussion" might be more appropriate — neither sounds quite ideal to my ear, but at least they're less liable to cause confusion. (BTW, the current wording has quite a long history; it's not surprising that there may have been a few procedural changes since it was introduced.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 17:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

"This article's deletion discussion" sounds good to me. --MCB (talk) 19:16, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template mangled

Why is the template coding all screwed up right now. The bottom half isn't showing up, and I'm getting {{#ifeq:yes|yes| at the top. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 18:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)